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wow

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welcome to shattered reality

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with your hosts kate valentine and

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ferocia

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prepare to have your paradigms shifted

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into truth questioned

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and now

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hi welcome back to shattered reality we

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are indeed the aforementioned host

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ferusha a very famous new york psychic

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also the authors of several fascinating

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blog posts

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i am kate valentine a longtime uh sort

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of studier of ufology

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with a few radio shows under my belt

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and we are both fortunate today to have

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as our guest uh the illustrious mr david

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the ending

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and ferusha if you will go over some of

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david's credentials well many people who

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may be listening to us

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probably remember david from his

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four-year

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term

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as the co-host

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on the paracast

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he was on for four years talking about

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all kinds of of phenomena and talking to

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people and sometimes

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eviscerating the fakers yes indeed and

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anna he is currently

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at an ivy league college being a teacher

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of digital media in the past he has been

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a multimedia expert

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and he has

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given info to the narcap report and he

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worked on

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the o'hare sighting in addition he was

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one of the original people

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who worked on photoshop and he actually

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wrote the first manual ever

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for the photoshop program

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so

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without further ado

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let me introduce

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my friend and

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very very interesting gentleman

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david biedny

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i hope i can live up to that uh to that

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that greeting

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david you can live up to that and more

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you are one of the more fascinating

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people i've ever spoken to oh man oh

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yeah well this is from a lady who can't

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even use her webcam or

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her little web camera i still have a

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tracfone so that's where i'm at

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but you know david i really wanted to

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speak to you because you're one of the

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few people that are interested in this

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field but you uh when i met you a long

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time ago you asked me

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if i had my drug druthers what would i

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want the ufos to turn out to be

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and i remember telling you i really had

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you know i could i would like this i

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would like that but i really didn't care

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as long as one day i found out what they

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were

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and you agreed with that and i i you are

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one of the few people in this field that

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i've met that really don't have an angle

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you just really attack it and sort of

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sort things out and do you find that to

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be true about yourself

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um

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i come at this from a weird place

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in that i'm

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someone who

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in the four years that i did the power

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cast 2006 to 2010

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uh interestingly enough i sort of got

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put in that box of

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debunking

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because part of what i did on that show

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was to take some of the

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sort of the holy cows of the

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of the field and and take them down just

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simply ask relevant logical questions

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um so i got put in that box it seems

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like everything

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that goes on in our culture nowadays is

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about this extreme polarization

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um

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whereas

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the reality is that i got into doing the

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paracast primarily

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because i wanted to have rational

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reasonable discussions about the

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lifetime

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of anomalous experiences that i had that

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i i couldn't talk about in mixed company

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and i also found i couldn't have

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reasonable conversations because

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everybody immediately had their

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conclusions which they

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wanted to sort of force down your throat

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when you would talk about so when i

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would talk about things people would say

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well it's this that or the other thing

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and i sort of came to understand that

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i walked this very weird middle line

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which is that you know i look at

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debunkers debunkers

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basically assume they make the

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assumption

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that

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everything is prosaic everything

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can be explained by science as science

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currently stands

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and that people who report

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having odd experiences are are basically

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just making the stuff up or they're

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suffering mental disease or

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any number of explanations that fall

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into the

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sort of the the expected and then you

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have on the other end of the spectrum

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the people who

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go by various names you know there's

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there's

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a term i constantly hear is the woo

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people

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um

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that

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they know what's going on with

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pick your pick your take your pick of

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whatever anomalous thing we're talking

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about they know what it is they

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understand the motivations of whatever

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it is

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and for a lot of those people the

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the

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anomalous is sort of like a proxy

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religion

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i stand right in the middle in that my

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assumption

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uh is that the human mind in its current

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state of evolution

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is not capable of understanding what is

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most likely the truth behind a lot of

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this stuff

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which is not a comfortable place people

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want to have answers

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they're very uncomfortable

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facing the prospect of not having any

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kind of answers or even being told even

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if you had the answers your brain and

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its current state of evolution all of

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our brains could not process this

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information

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well that's something that

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i've written about

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on my blog that people

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don't like the entire idea that

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something could be smarter than them and

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i don't mean that there isn't somebody

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who can do nuclear physics and they

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can't but somebody or some being that is

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so much smarter than them that that

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being looks on them like um you know

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like a flea or yeah like we look at an

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ant yeah sure

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so uh so since we may just simply be lab

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rats i'm almost going to jump into this

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because this is a question that i have

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been asking myself lately

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in terms of those persons who have had

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legitimate uh contact with an other

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and other intelligence outside of our

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ken

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so to speak

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um

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what's your position on the thought that

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these others might be lying to us versus

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the idea that what they tell us we just

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simply mis misunderstand

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i'm getting the feeling you were

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listening to some old power cast

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recently

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um well that was always that was a sort

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of a key

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position i took which is to assume

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that if you were dealing with an in a

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superior intelligence of any sort

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there's absolutely no reason to believe

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that it would be straightforward and

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honest there's every reason to believe

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that it would incorporate some level of

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deception in order to protect itself in

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the same way that humans do

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i i don't i i we now know that dogs will

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basically play games with each other to

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deceive each other

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uh i wrote a an essay years ago called

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the truth about lies

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uh that's floating around online right

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which is just about the fact that

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it seems i say the fact but it seems

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clear to me that humans to some degree

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are

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addicted to deception it's it's our

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default mode of being this is not a

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pleasant revelation

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um it's something that really kind of uh

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it's frustrating and it's it's a little

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little sickening in a way because we

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like to think all of us like to think

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that we are

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seeking the truth at all times

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i've come to believe that that's not the

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case

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and so

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the idea that if we had a superior

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intelligence and dealing dealing with us

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directly

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that it would be honest and truthful

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it wouldn't really be that intelligent

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if it was honest and truthful with us

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because again i don't know that we could

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handle the truth but the things that

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that appear to be lies

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that

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sometimes come out of these

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meetings of the mind shall we say

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would appear to be things that you don't

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necessarily need to lie about

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although some of the things like we come

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from venus to the to the

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to the contactees and and so forth well

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that certainly makes some sense that you

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know throw them off the throw them off

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the uh the scent

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well you know are you talking about

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abductees or people who say that they're

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abductees or i was talking specifically

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just i threw in a reference to the

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contactee movement where there were a

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number of people and the names

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sort of elude me at the moment who said

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that the okay the others said that they

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came from venus yeah and then clearly

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you know venus is extraordinarily hot

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and it's highly unlikely unless they're

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you know sulfur beings or something like

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that that they are actually living on

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venus those claims came out of a time

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when our scientific understanding of the

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solar system was compromised compared to

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now

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um and and it does seem i don't put any

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weight into any of that early contact t

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stuff at all

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to me it's just completely bogus i don't

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buy any of it

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um

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and that's not to say that i don't

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strongly suspect that

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humans throughout history

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have had ex direct interactions with

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non-human entities i think that is not

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only highly probable i i think that's

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indeed

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happened and is ongoing

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um

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but again to try to then come down to

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understanding the motivations for these

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interactions

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i think that is beyond our current level

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of understanding

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of reality in general

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i just i'm i'm

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as someone who's really motivated by

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understanding science

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i'm always fascinated about how much we

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don't know

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uh about everything pick take your

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choice well you know even up until what

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was it 20 years ago

290
00:11:16,870 --> 00:11:14,480
most astronomers would tell you well

291
00:11:19,509 --> 00:11:16,880
maybe there are other planets but right

292
00:11:20,790 --> 00:11:19,519
now we have no evidence of that which is

293
00:11:23,110 --> 00:11:20,800
like so

294
00:11:24,790 --> 00:11:23,120
ridiculous a statement even back then

295
00:11:26,630 --> 00:11:24,800
even as a child i said well how could

296
00:11:28,630 --> 00:11:26,640
that be no well they didn't want to go

297
00:11:30,949 --> 00:11:28,640
on a limb they were basically uh they

298
00:11:33,509 --> 00:11:30,959
were practicing sound science they

299
00:11:36,470 --> 00:11:33,519
didn't want to make assumptions

300
00:11:39,350 --> 00:11:36,480
okay but then again i think that's what

301
00:11:41,750 --> 00:11:39,360
keeps uh people who make a living doing

302
00:11:44,630 --> 00:11:41,760
science out of ufology because it is

303
00:11:47,430 --> 00:11:44,640
definitely a career killer i mean nobody

304
00:11:48,470 --> 00:11:47,440
is about that pretty much that's a fact

305
00:11:50,310 --> 00:11:48,480
oh yeah

306
00:11:52,389 --> 00:11:50,320
yeah yeah and i that was my own

307
00:11:54,470 --> 00:11:52,399
experience i found that to be true

308
00:11:56,470 --> 00:11:54,480
and i just uh wrote a response to

309
00:11:59,910 --> 00:11:56,480
somebody on our

310
00:12:02,870 --> 00:11:59,920
website there that the person was sort

311
00:12:03,990 --> 00:12:02,880
of talking about seth shaw stack and how

312
00:12:08,230 --> 00:12:04,000
he has

313
00:12:10,629 --> 00:12:08,240
distanced himself from the ufo field and

314
00:12:13,590 --> 00:12:10,639
while i think that that may be a mistake

315
00:12:16,150 --> 00:12:13,600
on his part i do think that he probably

316
00:12:16,870 --> 00:12:16,160
saw it as a career killer basically and

317
00:12:19,750 --> 00:12:16,880
he

318
00:12:22,790 --> 00:12:19,760
you know needed to distance himself from

319
00:12:26,389 --> 00:12:22,800
what the media portrays people who are

320
00:12:28,870 --> 00:12:26,399
were ufologists as crazy people wearing

321
00:12:31,190 --> 00:12:28,880
uh tinfoil hats you know yeah but that's

322
00:12:32,710 --> 00:12:31,200
shawstack zone making i saw shostak go

323
00:12:35,509 --> 00:12:32,720
on shows where he showed up with little

324
00:12:38,069 --> 00:12:35,519
alien head bubble yeah bobblehead dolls

325
00:12:40,710 --> 00:12:38,079
and he would just basically

326
00:12:43,269 --> 00:12:40,720
he's terrible just making fun of people

327
00:12:45,670 --> 00:12:43,279
uh not engaging in anything i'd call

328
00:12:47,509 --> 00:12:45,680
genuine scientific inquiry

329
00:12:49,509 --> 00:12:47,519
and you know i forget the fella's name

330
00:12:51,590 --> 00:12:49,519
now jeff some i can't think of his last

331
00:12:53,590 --> 00:12:51,600
name but he was the one astronomer that

332
00:12:55,509 --> 00:12:53,600
said look i have to be other planets and

333
00:12:57,030 --> 00:12:55,519
he was the one that found the pegasus

334
00:12:58,949 --> 00:12:57,040
planet and uh

335
00:13:01,590 --> 00:12:58,959
so you would think that some young

336
00:13:03,110 --> 00:13:01,600
person today that would want to make a

337
00:13:05,190 --> 00:13:03,120
name for themselves would say look

338
00:13:07,030 --> 00:13:05,200
there's enough evidence here that

339
00:13:09,670 --> 00:13:07,040
something is going on

340
00:13:12,790 --> 00:13:09,680
but again you know at least with the

341
00:13:15,269 --> 00:13:12,800
planet hunters they had some data some

342
00:13:17,750 --> 00:13:15,279
means of investigating it the problem

343
00:13:20,629 --> 00:13:17,760
with ufos has been stated a gazillion

344
00:13:22,790 --> 00:13:20,639
times is that there's no consistent data

345
00:13:24,470 --> 00:13:22,800
there's no one place you can go to

346
00:13:27,110 --> 00:13:24,480
investigate it's you know if you're

347
00:13:28,790 --> 00:13:27,120
happy and lucky enough to be there with

348
00:13:31,030 --> 00:13:28,800
one of your uh

349
00:13:32,230 --> 00:13:31,040
media cameras then great you get it if

350
00:13:37,430 --> 00:13:32,240
you're not

351
00:13:41,269 --> 00:13:39,430
yeah i don't think lucky is a good word

352
00:13:43,430 --> 00:13:41,279
uh and at this point

353
00:13:45,990 --> 00:13:43,440
we also have to just recognize and

354
00:13:48,629 --> 00:13:46,000
realize and i say this the day after

355
00:13:50,949 --> 00:13:48,639
we're we're recording this the day after

356
00:13:52,710 --> 00:13:50,959
the 25th anniversary of photoshops

357
00:13:54,470 --> 00:13:52,720
released in the market

358
00:13:57,829 --> 00:13:54,480
formally um

359
00:14:00,829 --> 00:13:57,839
at this point in time the uh validity

360
00:14:04,389 --> 00:14:00,839
veracity and usefulness of

361
00:14:06,550 --> 00:14:04,399
specifically still image evidence

362
00:14:09,910 --> 00:14:06,560
is pretty much out the window it's gone

363
00:14:11,110 --> 00:14:09,920
okay um photographic evidence is now so

364
00:14:13,990 --> 00:14:11,120
suspect

365
00:14:15,910 --> 00:14:14,000
uh because usually it it it lacks

366
00:14:17,509 --> 00:14:15,920
context usually it lacks any kind of

367
00:14:18,710 --> 00:14:17,519
triangulation

368
00:14:20,230 --> 00:14:18,720
um

369
00:14:22,310 --> 00:14:20,240
you know when i when i the day that i

370
00:14:24,389 --> 00:14:22,320
see the ufo photograph that's been shot

371
00:14:25,910 --> 00:14:24,399
by three separate people on their cell

372
00:14:27,670 --> 00:14:25,920
phones from three

373
00:14:30,949 --> 00:14:27,680
different positions

374
00:14:32,629 --> 00:14:30,959
that shows consistency three people who

375
00:14:35,189 --> 00:14:32,639
are willing to go on there on the record

376
00:14:37,030 --> 00:14:35,199
with their real names prove who they are

377
00:14:40,389 --> 00:14:37,040
um

378
00:14:41,269 --> 00:14:40,399
deliver uh uh images that

379
00:14:42,870 --> 00:14:41,279
uh

380
00:14:44,710 --> 00:14:42,880
clearly are not hoaxed that are

381
00:14:46,550 --> 00:14:44,720
legitimate that have the right kind of

382
00:14:48,470 --> 00:14:46,560
data in them to suggest that they're

383
00:14:51,509 --> 00:14:48,480
legitimate and so let's say you had

384
00:14:53,750 --> 00:14:51,519
those photos let's say you had that

385
00:14:55,670 --> 00:14:53,760
witness testimony okay

386
00:14:56,949 --> 00:14:55,680
let me tell you what you wouldn't have

387
00:14:59,030 --> 00:14:56,959
you wouldn't have any kind of

388
00:15:01,110 --> 00:14:59,040
information about the sourcing of let's

389
00:15:02,710 --> 00:15:01,120
say it's a ufo right you wouldn't know

390
00:15:03,990 --> 00:15:02,720
where the ufo came from you wouldn't

391
00:15:05,910 --> 00:15:04,000
know what it was made of you wouldn't

392
00:15:08,389 --> 00:15:05,920
know what was in it you wouldn't know

393
00:15:10,150 --> 00:15:08,399
what it was doing here um

394
00:15:12,230 --> 00:15:10,160
you pretty much know nothing except that

395
00:15:14,790 --> 00:15:12,240
there's some anomalous thing in the sky

396
00:15:16,389 --> 00:15:14,800
that has now been corroborated exactly

397
00:15:18,949 --> 00:15:16,399
so it's not like

398
00:15:20,470 --> 00:15:18,959
even like the discovery of other planets

399
00:15:22,150 --> 00:15:20,480
is not is not the same thing as the

400
00:15:24,150 --> 00:15:22,160
discovery of life on other planets

401
00:15:26,150 --> 00:15:24,160
because it's still there and other

402
00:15:28,870 --> 00:15:26,160
people can go back and verify the

403
00:15:31,990 --> 00:15:28,880
original investigation and that you

404
00:15:34,470 --> 00:15:32,000
don't have it's just maddening i find

405
00:15:36,230 --> 00:15:34,480
well and and that suggests to me i mean

406
00:15:37,509 --> 00:15:36,240
and this is something i've come to

407
00:15:39,189 --> 00:15:37,519
believe

408
00:15:40,949 --> 00:15:39,199
and i and i use the word belief when i

409
00:15:42,710 --> 00:15:40,959
emphasize it because

410
00:15:44,710 --> 00:15:42,720
the thing about beliefs is that you you

411
00:15:46,949 --> 00:15:44,720
can believe anything

412
00:15:48,389 --> 00:15:46,959
um on a personal level you don't even

413
00:15:50,389 --> 00:15:48,399
need to prove things to yourself you can

414
00:15:51,670 --> 00:15:50,399
simply believe them based on

415
00:15:53,509 --> 00:15:51,680
free will

416
00:15:55,990 --> 00:15:53,519
um so belief to me is kind of a

417
00:15:57,670 --> 00:15:56,000
problematic word it always has been

418
00:16:00,389 --> 00:15:57,680
um

419
00:16:05,189 --> 00:16:01,749
you know coming back that round to my

420
00:16:06,710 --> 00:16:05,199
original statement i want to make um

421
00:16:08,790 --> 00:16:06,720
in the end

422
00:16:10,230 --> 00:16:08,800
you can believe whatever you want and

423
00:16:11,829 --> 00:16:10,240
and and what was i going to say i was

424
00:16:13,509 --> 00:16:11,839
going to say something i believe and

425
00:16:15,430 --> 00:16:13,519
then i went off on a tangent to to

426
00:16:17,189 --> 00:16:15,440
discuss the context of the word belief i

427
00:16:19,990 --> 00:16:17,199
do that a lot by the way

428
00:16:21,350 --> 00:16:20,000
i have a very clean mind yeah

429
00:16:23,269 --> 00:16:21,360
it's not getting better as i get any

430
00:16:26,550 --> 00:16:23,279
older well i think we're talking about

431
00:16:29,430 --> 00:16:26,560
investigating science and being able to

432
00:16:32,629 --> 00:16:29,440
recapitulate an original discovery or

433
00:16:35,990 --> 00:16:32,639
investigation or goldilocks planets uh

434
00:16:37,910 --> 00:16:36,000
not necessarily having life yeah well

435
00:16:40,310 --> 00:16:37,920
and then then again oh they have life i

436
00:16:42,710 --> 00:16:40,320
mean you know dna i'm sure is universal

437
00:16:43,990 --> 00:16:42,720
to me and again okay here's the i'm not

438
00:16:46,389 --> 00:16:44,000
saying but you see you use the word

439
00:16:47,910 --> 00:16:46,399
you're sure i know i let me take that

440
00:16:50,150 --> 00:16:47,920
back i stopped right away if you'll

441
00:16:51,430 --> 00:16:50,160
notice

442
00:16:53,509 --> 00:16:51,440
but

443
00:16:55,990 --> 00:16:53,519
anyway that would be an aspect that i

444
00:16:57,110 --> 00:16:56,000
would definitely follow through with

445
00:16:59,350 --> 00:16:57,120
very good

446
00:17:00,389 --> 00:16:59,360
hope that it would bear fruit

447
00:17:02,790 --> 00:17:00,399
in other words there are some

448
00:17:05,270 --> 00:17:02,800
investigations like into ufos that you

449
00:17:07,189 --> 00:17:05,280
do as a pastime because to put a lot of

450
00:17:09,189 --> 00:17:07,199
time and money into it

451
00:17:12,230 --> 00:17:09,199
probably the payout is going to be zero

452
00:17:14,549 --> 00:17:12,240
by the time you hit the big one

453
00:17:18,150 --> 00:17:14,559
but something like investigating dna

454
00:17:20,150 --> 00:17:18,160
yeah i think that's possibility and um

455
00:17:22,549 --> 00:17:20,160
of course i don't know but that's that

456
00:17:24,309 --> 00:17:22,559
would be my belief that that would be a

457
00:17:27,350 --> 00:17:24,319
potentially fruitful line of

458
00:17:28,630 --> 00:17:27,360
investigation right whereas ufos again

459
00:17:30,710 --> 00:17:28,640
it just

460
00:17:33,350 --> 00:17:30,720
i would love to investigate them more

461
00:17:35,350 --> 00:17:33,360
closely but after a long time

462
00:17:37,990 --> 00:17:35,360
spending time in this field i think i've

463
00:17:39,830 --> 00:17:38,000
sort of given up hope a little bit so

464
00:17:41,270 --> 00:17:39,840
so here's the here's the problem with

465
00:17:42,710 --> 00:17:41,280
all of this right

466
00:17:44,230 --> 00:17:42,720
um

467
00:17:46,310 --> 00:17:44,240
in order to get someone who's going to

468
00:17:47,909 --> 00:17:46,320
be able to approach the topic of ufos in

469
00:17:49,909 --> 00:17:47,919
a level-headed way

470
00:17:51,510 --> 00:17:49,919
it's my belief that a

471
00:17:53,510 --> 00:17:51,520
you have to deal with somebody who's had

472
00:17:55,190 --> 00:17:53,520
a personal experience

473
00:17:58,070 --> 00:17:55,200
if not then you have people who

474
00:18:00,549 --> 00:17:58,080
basically are are thrilled

475
00:18:02,310 --> 00:18:00,559
or thrilled chasers uh you have people

476
00:18:04,470 --> 00:18:02,320
who and they come to it with their own

477
00:18:06,150 --> 00:18:04,480
preconceived set of notions for a lot of

478
00:18:08,470 --> 00:18:06,160
these people it's either become a proxy

479
00:18:09,830 --> 00:18:08,480
religion or just become another pastime

480
00:18:11,830 --> 00:18:09,840
it's just a hobby it's something they do

481
00:18:14,950 --> 00:18:11,840
for fun they like the thrill of it they

482
00:18:16,710 --> 00:18:14,960
like the unknown and oh that's fine um

483
00:18:19,029 --> 00:18:16,720
but that person is going to approach all

484
00:18:22,150 --> 00:18:19,039
of this with a very different level of

485
00:18:24,150 --> 00:18:22,160
vested interest in getting to

486
00:18:25,669 --> 00:18:24,160
my old tagline on the paracast was

487
00:18:28,310 --> 00:18:25,679
trying to separate the signal from the

488
00:18:30,549 --> 00:18:28,320
noise there's there's a ton of noise and

489
00:18:32,470 --> 00:18:30,559
in order to cut through the noise to get

490
00:18:34,470 --> 00:18:32,480
signal one has to have

491
00:18:36,710 --> 00:18:34,480
sort of a a certain type of i believe

492
00:18:39,190 --> 00:18:36,720
motivation which is about finding

493
00:18:40,710 --> 00:18:39,200
personal truth so right somebody doesn't

494
00:18:42,390 --> 00:18:40,720
have an anomalous let's say somebody who

495
00:18:43,909 --> 00:18:42,400
gets interested in ufos has never seen

496
00:18:45,669 --> 00:18:43,919
one

497
00:18:46,870 --> 00:18:45,679
it's fine from an entertainment point of

498
00:18:49,350 --> 00:18:46,880
view but

499
00:18:52,470 --> 00:18:49,360
i believe that that person does not have

500
00:18:55,750 --> 00:18:52,480
the kind of internal motivation that's

501
00:18:56,870 --> 00:18:55,760
going to lead them down things that are

502
00:18:58,230 --> 00:18:56,880
truthful it's going to lead them to

503
00:18:59,430 --> 00:18:58,240
things that are interesting maybe

504
00:19:02,070 --> 00:18:59,440
compelling

505
00:19:03,430 --> 00:19:02,080
uh maybe mystifying maybe a little scary

506
00:19:05,430 --> 00:19:03,440
because people like being scared that's

507
00:19:07,830 --> 00:19:05,440
why horror movies do so well

508
00:19:09,990 --> 00:19:07,840
um so now you have to have somebody you

509
00:19:11,990 --> 00:19:10,000
have to try to get somebody who's had an

510
00:19:14,390 --> 00:19:12,000
experience and what i can tell you from

511
00:19:16,710 --> 00:19:14,400
that is that when people have what i

512
00:19:18,549 --> 00:19:16,720
would consider to be genuine anomalous

513
00:19:21,750 --> 00:19:18,559
experiences

514
00:19:22,710 --> 00:19:21,760
it tends to damage them yes

515
00:19:24,630 --> 00:19:22,720
and so

516
00:19:26,310 --> 00:19:24,640
right and i've seen doing the power cast

517
00:19:28,310 --> 00:19:26,320
for four years i talked to some number

518
00:19:29,110 --> 00:19:28,320
of people over those four years

519
00:19:31,110 --> 00:19:29,120
who

520
00:19:33,430 --> 00:19:31,120
had had like one anomalous experience

521
00:19:35,350 --> 00:19:33,440
when they were kids and it screwed them

522
00:19:37,430 --> 00:19:35,360
up for the rest of their lives

523
00:19:40,390 --> 00:19:37,440
it basically really distorted their

524
00:19:41,430 --> 00:19:40,400
world view in many ways and so those

525
00:19:44,710 --> 00:19:41,440
people

526
00:19:46,630 --> 00:19:44,720
also the the idea of true objectivity

527
00:19:48,950 --> 00:19:46,640
and scientific clarity you're not going

528
00:19:50,789 --> 00:19:48,960
to find in most of those people because

529
00:19:52,710 --> 00:19:50,799
they've had this experience it's sort of

530
00:19:53,909 --> 00:19:52,720
the equivalent of a personal religious

531
00:19:55,270 --> 00:19:53,919
experience

532
00:19:57,029 --> 00:19:55,280
and so now they're looking to either

533
00:19:59,909 --> 00:19:57,039
recreate the experience because they

534
00:20:02,230 --> 00:19:59,919
want that thrill that that endorphin

535
00:20:04,230 --> 00:20:02,240
rush to the mind that happens when your

536
00:20:05,750 --> 00:20:04,240
brain sees something

537
00:20:08,150 --> 00:20:05,760
your eyes see something that your brain

538
00:20:09,430 --> 00:20:08,160
tells you cannot be there and yet your

539
00:20:11,510 --> 00:20:09,440
eyes are seeing it and then you have

540
00:20:13,270 --> 00:20:11,520
corroborating people standing next to

541
00:20:14,950 --> 00:20:13,280
you going i see that too

542
00:20:17,590 --> 00:20:14,960
um then you know it's

543
00:20:20,230 --> 00:20:17,600
this idea that there are consensual

544
00:20:22,470 --> 00:20:20,240
sort of mass hallucinations is very

545
00:20:24,070 --> 00:20:22,480
problematic it's very very rare if it's

546
00:20:25,990 --> 00:20:24,080
if it's happened at all it's kind of

547
00:20:27,669 --> 00:20:26,000
ludicrous actually well a little

548
00:20:29,350 --> 00:20:27,679
ludicrous i i think there are certain

549
00:20:30,950 --> 00:20:29,360
situations where you could possibly draw

550
00:20:32,870 --> 00:20:30,960
the potential of something like that

551
00:20:35,029 --> 00:20:32,880
happening but the idea that that happens

552
00:20:38,710 --> 00:20:35,039
on any kind of regular basis

553
00:20:39,990 --> 00:20:38,720
is sort of nonsensical david yes um

554
00:20:41,430 --> 00:20:40,000
i've had

555
00:20:44,230 --> 00:20:41,440
the uh

556
00:20:45,430 --> 00:20:44,240
experience of having people

557
00:20:46,830 --> 00:20:45,440
tell me

558
00:20:48,789 --> 00:20:46,840
that

559
00:20:51,110 --> 00:20:48,799
the raw

560
00:20:54,149 --> 00:20:51,120
biological terror

561
00:20:56,870 --> 00:20:54,159
that i have felt and i know that other

562
00:20:59,750 --> 00:20:56,880
experiences have felt

563
00:21:02,789 --> 00:20:59,760
is just fear and it can be conquered and

564
00:21:05,110 --> 00:21:02,799
when somebody says that to me i know

565
00:21:07,830 --> 00:21:05,120
they've never had that experience yeah

566
00:21:10,549 --> 00:21:07,840
because it has it's not it has nothing

567
00:21:12,630 --> 00:21:10,559
to do with your psychology and that

568
00:21:14,549 --> 00:21:12,640
you're fearing something happening

569
00:21:15,350 --> 00:21:14,559
because the onset

570
00:21:19,990 --> 00:21:15,360
is

571
00:21:22,710 --> 00:21:20,000
fear but

572
00:21:25,590 --> 00:21:22,720
like a raw biological terror well that's

573
00:21:27,350 --> 00:21:25,600
old programming in our brains it's that

574
00:21:28,950 --> 00:21:27,360
what i think is often referred to as the

575
00:21:31,430 --> 00:21:28,960
lizard brain

576
00:21:34,470 --> 00:21:31,440
uh you know it's it's the idea that you

577
00:21:36,149 --> 00:21:34,480
can use logic to conquer fear i have

578
00:21:37,750 --> 00:21:36,159
some problems with that especially when

579
00:21:38,549 --> 00:21:37,760
you're when you're witnessing something

580
00:21:39,669 --> 00:21:38,559
that

581
00:21:41,110 --> 00:21:39,679
again

582
00:21:42,950 --> 00:21:41,120
your brain

583
00:21:44,950 --> 00:21:42,960
is saying to your eyes there's there's

584
00:21:46,950 --> 00:21:44,960
just no way this is happening

585
00:21:49,430 --> 00:21:46,960
and and i discussed on the paracast

586
00:21:51,350 --> 00:21:49,440
publicly one particular episode

587
00:21:54,149 --> 00:21:51,360
uh involving a very old friend of mine

588
00:21:56,789 --> 00:21:54,159
in florida where we saw this

589
00:21:59,029 --> 00:21:56,799
really weird uh

590
00:22:01,430 --> 00:21:59,039
apparition of some sorts we interacted

591
00:22:03,510 --> 00:22:01,440
with it at close proximity

592
00:22:06,230 --> 00:22:03,520
and we watched this thing dematerialize

593
00:22:07,830 --> 00:22:06,240
we watched it would look like a human

594
00:22:09,669 --> 00:22:07,840
could you give us a little bit of

595
00:22:11,029 --> 00:22:09,679
background about that story that sounds

596
00:22:12,710 --> 00:22:11,039
really interesting

597
00:22:15,110 --> 00:22:12,720
it's um

598
00:22:16,390 --> 00:22:15,120
it's kind of a a drawn out story but the

599
00:22:18,070 --> 00:22:16,400
long and short of it is that an old

600
00:22:19,190 --> 00:22:18,080
friend of mine and myself in southern

601
00:22:21,350 --> 00:22:19,200
florida

602
00:22:22,549 --> 00:22:21,360
we're hanging out one day and we see

603
00:22:23,909 --> 00:22:22,559
this

604
00:22:25,990 --> 00:22:23,919
very odd

605
00:22:28,870 --> 00:22:26,000
apparition that looked like a human

606
00:22:31,510 --> 00:22:28,880
female sort of gliding across

607
00:22:34,310 --> 00:22:31,520
this walkway in this in this uh center

608
00:22:35,909 --> 00:22:34,320
part of a condo complex wow

609
00:22:37,669 --> 00:22:35,919
um

610
00:22:39,110 --> 00:22:37,679
and the thing that really and to this

611
00:22:40,390 --> 00:22:39,120
day this this happened a number of years

612
00:22:42,070 --> 00:22:40,400
ago and i still

613
00:22:43,430 --> 00:22:42,080
and just thinking about it my skin gets

614
00:22:44,390 --> 00:22:43,440
a little weird

615
00:22:46,549 --> 00:22:44,400
um

616
00:22:47,750 --> 00:22:46,559
well because the thing that immediately

617
00:22:49,590 --> 00:22:47,760
right well there were a couple of things

618
00:22:51,110 --> 00:22:49,600
that registered as completely off when

619
00:22:52,870 --> 00:22:51,120
we saw this thing

620
00:22:54,549 --> 00:22:52,880
which is that her legs were moving at

621
00:22:56,310 --> 00:22:54,559
one speed her body was moving much

622
00:22:58,789 --> 00:22:56,320
faster than the legs were moving

623
00:23:00,710 --> 00:22:58,799
so that was already you know visually

624
00:23:03,190 --> 00:23:00,720
especially as i'm i mean part of what i

625
00:23:05,909 --> 00:23:03,200
do in my life is i do animation

626
00:23:08,070 --> 00:23:05,919
and so i am intimately familiar with the

627
00:23:09,190 --> 00:23:08,080
idea of creating convincing motion and

628
00:23:10,630 --> 00:23:09,200
animation

629
00:23:13,270 --> 00:23:10,640
and when you're seeing something in the

630
00:23:15,270 --> 00:23:13,280
real world where the sink is off

631
00:23:17,990 --> 00:23:15,280
uh where again the legs are kind of

632
00:23:20,390 --> 00:23:18,000
moving slowly but the the the thing the

633
00:23:21,990 --> 00:23:20,400
legs are attached to is moving quickly

634
00:23:23,830 --> 00:23:22,000
immediately your brain goes oh no no

635
00:23:25,270 --> 00:23:23,840
that's

636
00:23:27,029 --> 00:23:25,280
something wrong there but then the thing

637
00:23:28,789 --> 00:23:27,039
that really stood out about this

638
00:23:29,830 --> 00:23:28,799
whatever it was

639
00:23:30,710 --> 00:23:29,840
was that

640
00:23:32,549 --> 00:23:30,720
where

641
00:23:33,830 --> 00:23:32,559
this was this happened outside in

642
00:23:36,870 --> 00:23:33,840
daylight

643
00:23:39,909 --> 00:23:36,880
uh where its eyes and its mouth were

644
00:23:42,630 --> 00:23:39,919
there was nothing it was just blackness

645
00:23:44,630 --> 00:23:42,640
there were no eyes there was no mouth

646
00:23:46,950 --> 00:23:44,640
and in the end this thing went and sort

647
00:23:49,190 --> 00:23:46,960
of seemed to sit down

648
00:23:51,350 --> 00:23:49,200
in this seating area

649
00:23:52,789 --> 00:23:51,360
and i dragged my friend out to get close

650
00:23:54,950 --> 00:23:52,799
to this thing we end up sitting like i

651
00:23:56,710 --> 00:23:54,960
don't know 15 feet away from it and

652
00:23:57,830 --> 00:23:56,720
we're both like what the hell is going

653
00:23:59,909 --> 00:23:57,840
on here and

654
00:24:01,510 --> 00:23:59,919
you know it was this fine balance this

655
00:24:04,070 --> 00:24:01,520
this balancing act of being really

656
00:24:07,270 --> 00:24:04,080
really scared but also really really

657
00:24:09,909 --> 00:24:07,280
fascinated like what is going on here

658
00:24:12,230 --> 00:24:09,919
and for me it was not my first anomalous

659
00:24:14,070 --> 00:24:12,240
experience by long shot

660
00:24:18,789 --> 00:24:14,080
so

661
00:24:19,909 --> 00:24:18,799
dealing with things that were really

662
00:24:21,190 --> 00:24:19,919
weird

663
00:24:23,350 --> 00:24:21,200
um

664
00:24:25,269 --> 00:24:23,360
and and the long and short of it is then

665
00:24:27,029 --> 00:24:25,279
this thing got up after a certain amount

666
00:24:29,110 --> 00:24:27,039
of time it got up and started drifting

667
00:24:32,390 --> 00:24:29,120
away and we watched it sort of

668
00:24:35,110 --> 00:24:32,400
dematerialize right into thin air

669
00:24:36,630 --> 00:24:35,120
now i don't know what this thing was

670
00:24:38,310 --> 00:24:36,640
like i can

671
00:24:40,630 --> 00:24:38,320
and and there's a episode of the

672
00:24:41,750 --> 00:24:40,640
paracast where my friend came on the

673
00:24:44,789 --> 00:24:41,760
show and

674
00:24:47,830 --> 00:24:44,799
identified himself by his real name wow

675
00:24:50,070 --> 00:24:47,840
uh and we we we we talked about this and

676
00:24:53,110 --> 00:24:50,080
we went through a large amount of detail

677
00:24:55,029 --> 00:24:53,120
which interestingly enough uh

678
00:24:57,110 --> 00:24:55,039
after that episode aired there were some

679
00:24:59,269 --> 00:24:57,120
people who said oh

680
00:25:00,549 --> 00:24:59,279
too much information way too much detail

681
00:25:02,950 --> 00:25:00,559
he could have made the story a lot

682
00:25:04,789 --> 00:25:02,960
shorter why should you well that's

683
00:25:07,029 --> 00:25:04,799
exactly that's clearly not somebody

684
00:25:09,510 --> 00:25:07,039
who's a researcher talking because it's

685
00:25:12,870 --> 00:25:09,520
like with too much detail huh

686
00:25:15,590 --> 00:25:12,880
um but but that's part of the reality of

687
00:25:16,390 --> 00:25:15,600
today's internet age there's an internet

688
00:25:17,590 --> 00:25:16,400
uh

689
00:25:19,190 --> 00:25:17,600
acronym

690
00:25:22,549 --> 00:25:19,200
tl

691
00:25:24,950 --> 00:25:22,559
colon dr which stands for too long

692
00:25:26,549 --> 00:25:24,960
didn't read oh and

693
00:25:28,710 --> 00:25:26,559
right it's like the standard response if

694
00:25:30,390 --> 00:25:28,720
somebody is on an online forum and

695
00:25:32,630 --> 00:25:30,400
somebody posts a long thing someone will

696
00:25:34,870 --> 00:25:32,640
put that little line up and then give

697
00:25:37,350 --> 00:25:34,880
their opinion which qualifies their

698
00:25:38,630 --> 00:25:37,360
opinion basically being useless

699
00:25:40,710 --> 00:25:38,640
um

700
00:25:43,430 --> 00:25:40,720
so so it was interesting in that some of

701
00:25:45,269 --> 00:25:43,440
the people who responded when my friend

702
00:25:46,950 --> 00:25:45,279
bill and i talked about that they were

703
00:25:48,630 --> 00:25:46,960
saying well you know they try to drag

704
00:25:50,470 --> 00:25:48,640
the story out and it's like well we're

705
00:25:52,149 --> 00:25:50,480
trying to give you guys all the details

706
00:25:54,870 --> 00:25:52,159
and information

707
00:25:56,390 --> 00:25:54,880
because maybe somebody can make use of

708
00:25:57,430 --> 00:25:56,400
that to help us figure out what the heck

709
00:26:01,269 --> 00:25:57,440
we saw

710
00:26:02,470 --> 00:26:01,279
so here's my my overall point about this

711
00:26:04,549 --> 00:26:02,480
um

712
00:26:05,909 --> 00:26:04,559
is that i've never made any

713
00:26:08,830 --> 00:26:05,919
sort of statement about what i thought

714
00:26:11,990 --> 00:26:08,840
this was i had some feelings that i

715
00:26:14,549 --> 00:26:12,000
might have shared about what i felt at

716
00:26:16,230 --> 00:26:14,559
the time seeing this but to say it's a

717
00:26:18,390 --> 00:26:16,240
ghost it was some

718
00:26:20,789 --> 00:26:18,400
it was a girl and she was dressed like

719
00:26:23,110 --> 00:26:20,799
in kind of 70s garb

720
00:26:25,430 --> 00:26:23,120
and this happened in the in the 90s so

721
00:26:27,669 --> 00:26:25,440
it was like well gee um

722
00:26:30,390 --> 00:26:27,679
you know maybe maybe it was a ghost i

723
00:26:31,830 --> 00:26:30,400
don't know what a ghost even is

724
00:26:33,750 --> 00:26:31,840
was it an apparition it was an

725
00:26:35,269 --> 00:26:33,760
apparition it de-materialized it looked

726
00:26:37,750 --> 00:26:35,279
human it didn't have eyes didn't have a

727
00:26:41,510 --> 00:26:39,590
that's what i know i don't know what it

728
00:26:43,510 --> 00:26:41,520
is i don't know where it came from i

729
00:26:45,190 --> 00:26:43,520
certainly don't know where it went

730
00:26:47,510 --> 00:26:45,200
um

731
00:26:49,190 --> 00:26:47,520
and i don't try to draw any conclusions

732
00:26:51,350 --> 00:26:49,200
about it because that's the part that's

733
00:26:53,830 --> 00:26:51,360
the step where i think people

734
00:26:55,909 --> 00:26:53,840
really impose their human insecurities

735
00:26:57,590 --> 00:26:55,919
on things and it's just about

736
00:26:59,590 --> 00:26:57,600
we want to be in control every human

737
00:27:01,430 --> 00:26:59,600
wants to be in control we want to be in

738
00:27:02,390 --> 00:27:01,440
control of our reality and as far as we

739
00:27:04,390 --> 00:27:02,400
can be

740
00:27:06,230 --> 00:27:04,400
and we don't want big questions

741
00:27:08,470 --> 00:27:06,240
unanswered questions hanging in front of

742
00:27:10,789 --> 00:27:08,480
us especially when it involves direct

743
00:27:12,630 --> 00:27:10,799
sensory experience

744
00:27:14,950 --> 00:27:12,640
we want to be able to to know what it is

745
00:27:16,549 --> 00:27:14,960
that happened so

746
00:27:19,110 --> 00:27:16,559
for me

747
00:27:21,110 --> 00:27:19,120
uh uh i look at that and i think

748
00:27:23,990 --> 00:27:21,120
to me it's it's a stand out experience

749
00:27:26,310 --> 00:27:24,000
but it's one of so many that i've had

750
00:27:28,390 --> 00:27:26,320
that quite frankly i've sort of lost

751
00:27:31,669 --> 00:27:28,400
track of all the things i've experienced

752
00:27:33,590 --> 00:27:31,679
yes yes i i can understand that have

753
00:27:36,789 --> 00:27:33,600
what has been

754
00:27:38,070 --> 00:27:36,799
the latest experience you may have

755
00:27:40,149 --> 00:27:38,080
had

756
00:27:42,070 --> 00:27:40,159
david

757
00:27:44,070 --> 00:27:42,080
that you would like to share that is oh

758
00:27:45,750 --> 00:27:44,080
i'm thinking i'm thinking what what

759
00:27:47,750 --> 00:27:45,760
you're thinking i you know it's

760
00:27:50,310 --> 00:27:47,760
interesting that ferusa is indeed a

761
00:27:52,470 --> 00:27:50,320
psychic and um can pick up things that i

762
00:27:55,430 --> 00:27:52,480
cannot i mean i'm about as far from

763
00:27:58,870 --> 00:27:55,440
being psychic as you get i'm pretty sure

764
00:28:02,389 --> 00:27:58,880
and uh i she and i have often speculated

765
00:28:03,909 --> 00:28:02,399
that it's sort of like uh and you might

766
00:28:06,310 --> 00:28:03,919
add to this too

767
00:28:07,830 --> 00:28:06,320
it's like the antenna like different

768
00:28:09,110 --> 00:28:07,840
people have can pick up different

769
00:28:11,590 --> 00:28:09,120
frequencies

770
00:28:13,269 --> 00:28:11,600
and when someone like yourself tells me

771
00:28:14,630 --> 00:28:13,279
that you've had a lot of anomalous

772
00:28:16,710 --> 00:28:14,640
experiences

773
00:28:19,350 --> 00:28:16,720
i sort of think that your

774
00:28:22,470 --> 00:28:19,360
antenna is more finely tuned than mine

775
00:28:24,310 --> 00:28:22,480
because i i haven't seen anything like a

776
00:28:25,990 --> 00:28:24,320
team well actually i did actually i've

777
00:28:28,389 --> 00:28:26,000
seen a lot of things

778
00:28:32,630 --> 00:28:28,399
yeah actually i did now comes yeah i saw

779
00:28:35,029 --> 00:28:32,640
this huge black caped figure of a some

780
00:28:37,750 --> 00:28:35,039
male figure that was just enormous with

781
00:28:40,070 --> 00:28:37,760
his arms crossed staring at me and

782
00:28:41,990 --> 00:28:40,080
i went ooh

783
00:28:44,630 --> 00:28:42,000
and he said don't worry i'm here to

784
00:28:47,830 --> 00:28:44,640
protect you and i said good to know and

785
00:28:50,149 --> 00:28:47,840
then it disappeared so i guess i have

786
00:28:52,710 --> 00:28:50,159
had some but you know not nowhere near

787
00:28:55,830 --> 00:28:52,720
the amount that uh varusha has had and

788
00:28:59,510 --> 00:28:55,840
that you seem to have had and uh what

789
00:29:01,909 --> 00:28:59,520
since you are in media and technology

790
00:29:03,909 --> 00:29:01,919
do you think that there's any

791
00:29:06,230 --> 00:29:03,919
whilst you're perusing what your latest

792
00:29:08,630 --> 00:29:06,240
experience would be well the thing is

793
00:29:10,149 --> 00:29:08,640
i'm hesitant to share experiences where

794
00:29:12,389 --> 00:29:10,159
i don't have

795
00:29:13,750 --> 00:29:12,399
corroborating witnesses oh that's okay

796
00:29:15,430 --> 00:29:13,760
we'll believe you

797
00:29:17,510 --> 00:29:15,440
well i wouldn't want you to actually i

798
00:29:19,830 --> 00:29:17,520
would i would hope you wouldn't no i

799
00:29:21,669 --> 00:29:19,840
wouldn't no i'm being serious well so

800
00:29:24,870 --> 00:29:21,679
why come on we'd love to hear

801
00:29:28,789 --> 00:29:26,870
i trust you

802
00:29:30,870 --> 00:29:28,799
well you shouldn't trust me well yeah i

803
00:29:32,549 --> 00:29:30,880
should because i've known you i love you

804
00:29:34,230 --> 00:29:32,559
for a long time and i guess this is

805
00:29:37,110 --> 00:29:34,240
where i'm a new yorker right i'm gonna

806
00:29:39,110 --> 00:29:37,120
serve as diehard brooklyn boy where

807
00:29:41,430 --> 00:29:39,120
i'm i i've learned to be much less

808
00:29:43,269 --> 00:29:41,440
trusting well i'm from yonkers and i

809
00:29:45,430 --> 00:29:43,279
still trust you

810
00:29:47,830 --> 00:29:45,440
well yonka's ain't brooklyn lady

811
00:29:49,990 --> 00:29:47,840
um it certainly is not

812
00:29:52,710 --> 00:29:50,000
oh yeah oh these days i think it's even

813
00:29:54,789 --> 00:29:52,720
a lot more affordable than brooklyn um

814
00:29:56,549 --> 00:29:54,799
which is just anyway okay we're not

815
00:29:58,070 --> 00:29:56,559
gonna go down that road okay so i'm

816
00:29:59,669 --> 00:29:58,080
trying i'm trying to think like what

817
00:30:02,310 --> 00:29:59,679
what could i point out that's been

818
00:30:03,909 --> 00:30:02,320
really truly

819
00:30:05,510 --> 00:30:03,919
uh and i know there's like something in

820
00:30:06,870 --> 00:30:05,520
my brain is saying well you just had

821
00:30:10,789 --> 00:30:06,880
something happen

822
00:30:13,029 --> 00:30:10,799
and literally they they start to sort of

823
00:30:16,230 --> 00:30:13,039
bleed together

824
00:30:19,990 --> 00:30:16,240
to the point where um

825
00:30:22,070 --> 00:30:20,000
i start to question my own senses

826
00:30:23,830 --> 00:30:22,080
and and and this is the this is this is

827
00:30:27,110 --> 00:30:23,840
where you can start to really lose it

828
00:30:29,990 --> 00:30:27,120
with this stuff yes um by basically just

829
00:30:32,389 --> 00:30:30,000
pondering it too much too much

830
00:30:34,389 --> 00:30:32,399
self ins introspection on this stuff

831
00:30:36,710 --> 00:30:34,399
will will will start to get to you and

832
00:30:38,470 --> 00:30:36,720
and this is the thing that i i work very

833
00:30:41,350 --> 00:30:38,480
hard

834
00:30:43,190 --> 00:30:41,360
at keeping myself interested in things

835
00:30:45,269 --> 00:30:43,200
other than this not that i keep i don't

836
00:30:46,789 --> 00:30:45,279
work very hard at it i just find that a

837
00:30:49,110 --> 00:30:46,799
lot of the time

838
00:30:50,230 --> 00:30:49,120
i don't obsess about these things and

839
00:30:52,310 --> 00:30:50,240
i'll give you an example of what i'm

840
00:30:54,389 --> 00:30:52,320
talking about when you go on

841
00:30:57,590 --> 00:30:54,399
social media websites like facebook

842
00:30:59,350 --> 00:30:57,600
which i'm very active on um

843
00:31:01,909 --> 00:30:59,360
it's it's interesting to me how so often

844
00:31:04,310 --> 00:31:01,919
you will see people who will have their

845
00:31:05,830 --> 00:31:04,320
personal webs their personal website or

846
00:31:07,669 --> 00:31:05,840
their facebook page

847
00:31:10,070 --> 00:31:07,679
and it will be completely devoted to

848
00:31:12,070 --> 00:31:10,080
let's say the ufo topic

849
00:31:13,909 --> 00:31:12,080
their their their avatar their profile

850
00:31:17,110 --> 00:31:13,919
picture is like a little manipulated

851
00:31:19,110 --> 00:31:17,120
gray being with their eyes or something

852
00:31:20,870 --> 00:31:19,120
everything they post is about this topic

853
00:31:22,549 --> 00:31:20,880
i think that's unhealthy

854
00:31:24,549 --> 00:31:22,559
i think it's really true i think it's

855
00:31:26,630 --> 00:31:24,559
very unhealthy to put that kind of a

856
00:31:28,789 --> 00:31:26,640
vibe out about oneself

857
00:31:32,470 --> 00:31:28,799
um i just think it's unhealthy to be

858
00:31:34,710 --> 00:31:32,480
that obsessed with any one topic uh i'm

859
00:31:37,430 --> 00:31:34,720
a man of many hobbies and many interests

860
00:31:38,789 --> 00:31:37,440
and people who read my online musings

861
00:31:41,430 --> 00:31:38,799
they know this

862
00:31:44,630 --> 00:31:41,440
i'm very political i'm very interested

863
00:31:46,870 --> 00:31:44,640
in art music i'm really into technology

864
00:31:48,470 --> 00:31:46,880
i love weird software that makes weird

865
00:31:50,710 --> 00:31:48,480
sounds that to me

866
00:31:52,549 --> 00:31:50,720
left my own devices it's all i'd ever do

867
00:31:55,750 --> 00:31:52,559
ever again is make weird sounds with

868
00:31:57,830 --> 00:31:55,760
computers and ipads and synthesizers and

869
00:32:01,029 --> 00:31:57,840
strange devices that i put my head into

870
00:32:03,509 --> 00:32:01,039
and think music and it comes out um

871
00:32:04,870 --> 00:32:03,519
and and and i try to sort of keep

872
00:32:06,310 --> 00:32:04,880
interested in a lot of different things

873
00:32:09,350 --> 00:32:06,320
just because

874
00:32:13,190 --> 00:32:09,360
otherwise one goes down this sort of

875
00:32:16,149 --> 00:32:14,789
oh clearly

876
00:32:19,590 --> 00:32:16,159
clearly um

877
00:32:22,230 --> 00:32:19,600
i know as since i was a child i have

878
00:32:24,710 --> 00:32:22,240
always had to

879
00:32:26,470 --> 00:32:24,720
meaningfully focus

880
00:32:29,590 --> 00:32:26,480
on being in

881
00:32:32,310 --> 00:32:29,600
the you know 4d reality that we

882
00:32:35,110 --> 00:32:32,320
purportedly share

883
00:32:38,870 --> 00:32:35,120
and i've always had to

884
00:32:41,110 --> 00:32:38,880
try absolutely try not to let

885
00:32:45,110 --> 00:32:41,120
it go

886
00:32:47,350 --> 00:32:45,120
that doesn't say much for my sanity

887
00:32:49,750 --> 00:32:47,360
i would never have guessed that

888
00:32:51,830 --> 00:32:49,760
well you know what what i find is that

889
00:32:53,830 --> 00:32:51,840
music will cure everything in the end

890
00:32:57,110 --> 00:32:53,840
making it listening to it

891
00:32:59,750 --> 00:32:57,120
uh it is truly is truly the thing that

892
00:33:01,909 --> 00:32:59,760
has saved me in my life and

893
00:33:03,590 --> 00:33:01,919
uh as far as i'm concerned it's the most

894
00:33:05,990 --> 00:33:03,600
noble thing that humans have ever come

895
00:33:09,269 --> 00:33:06,000
up with well if i could just interject a

896
00:33:12,870 --> 00:33:09,279
personal note here sure bill

897
00:33:16,070 --> 00:33:12,880
our our esteemed producer uh has also

898
00:33:18,389 --> 00:33:16,080
had a personal experience and it uh

899
00:33:19,750 --> 00:33:18,399
it was difficult for him i think if i'm

900
00:33:22,310 --> 00:33:19,760
right bill

901
00:33:26,630 --> 00:33:22,320
for him to express it and so what he did

902
00:33:28,710 --> 00:33:26,640
was translate into a musical piece

903
00:33:30,470 --> 00:33:28,720
yeah and when i heard the piece i

904
00:33:33,190 --> 00:33:30,480
thought ah you know

905
00:33:36,230 --> 00:33:33,200
that sounds just like it would be

906
00:33:38,470 --> 00:33:36,240
you know it was really so

907
00:33:40,950 --> 00:33:38,480
music is interesting you know it's it's

908
00:33:44,389 --> 00:33:40,960
been a part of human culture since i'm

909
00:33:45,909 --> 00:33:44,399
sure since the first cave guys ugh in

910
00:33:47,830 --> 00:33:45,919
unison you know

911
00:33:49,990 --> 00:33:47,840
what well organized religion figured

912
00:33:52,789 --> 00:33:50,000
that out a long time ago yeah yeah

913
00:33:54,950 --> 00:33:52,799
that's true thank you mr bach

914
00:33:57,590 --> 00:33:54,960
well it's true i mean they they they use

915
00:33:59,590 --> 00:33:57,600
the power of music in a way that yeah uh

916
00:34:01,029 --> 00:33:59,600
was very mesmerizing

917
00:34:02,230 --> 00:34:01,039
um

918
00:34:02,870 --> 00:34:02,240
and uh

919
00:34:03,909 --> 00:34:02,880
uh

920
00:34:05,590 --> 00:34:03,919
that's what

921
00:34:07,430 --> 00:34:05,600
bill had the microphone now he'd tell

922
00:34:09,109 --> 00:34:07,440
you about the evils what is it the

923
00:34:10,389 --> 00:34:09,119
seventh chord that you were telling me

924
00:34:12,550 --> 00:34:10,399
about

925
00:34:15,349 --> 00:34:12,560
that one

926
00:34:17,829 --> 00:34:15,359
the tritone tones yeah yeah which i i

927
00:34:20,230 --> 00:34:17,839
i'm sorry i'm first anyway just getting

928
00:34:22,470 --> 00:34:20,240
back on to topic

929
00:34:25,829 --> 00:34:22,480
could you tell us a little bit about the

930
00:34:27,750 --> 00:34:25,839
narcap report and what you are uh

931
00:34:30,149 --> 00:34:27,760
what your uh

932
00:34:32,950 --> 00:34:30,159
what you did with the narcap report so

933
00:34:35,030 --> 00:34:32,960
that narcap report that you referenced

934
00:34:38,230 --> 00:34:35,040
um had been

935
00:34:39,510 --> 00:34:38,240
created as an analysis of what happened

936
00:34:40,869 --> 00:34:39,520
in uh

937
00:34:42,710 --> 00:34:40,879
chicago at

938
00:34:44,310 --> 00:34:42,720
the o'hare airport

939
00:34:48,869 --> 00:34:44,320
um

940
00:34:51,030 --> 00:34:48,879
it was november of i want to say 2006

941
00:34:52,869 --> 00:34:51,040
uh i i i don't have it right in front of

942
00:34:54,950 --> 00:34:52,879
me um i think it was later but i

943
00:34:55,909 --> 00:34:54,960
couldn't tell you what yeah go ahead

944
00:34:57,990 --> 00:34:55,919
well

945
00:35:00,310 --> 00:34:58,000
uh now you're gonna make me look it up

946
00:35:04,710 --> 00:35:02,349
well it was it was a very

947
00:35:07,349 --> 00:35:04,720
popularized uh incident that had

948
00:35:09,750 --> 00:35:07,359
occurred yeah it was 2006 november of

949
00:35:10,710 --> 00:35:09,760
2006 november 7th

950
00:35:12,470 --> 00:35:10,720
um

951
00:35:13,750 --> 00:35:12,480
where uh there

952
00:35:16,870 --> 00:35:13,760
reportedly

953
00:35:18,790 --> 00:35:16,880
a number of people had seen a craft a

954
00:35:21,030 --> 00:35:18,800
circular disc shaped craft hovering

955
00:35:23,910 --> 00:35:21,040
above i believe it was the sea terminal

956
00:35:27,109 --> 00:35:23,920
at o'hare airport um

957
00:35:29,589 --> 00:35:27,119
it had been seen by supposedly uh

958
00:35:32,069 --> 00:35:29,599
crew on the ground united crew it had

959
00:35:32,950 --> 00:35:32,079
been seen supposedly by a pilot

960
00:35:34,790 --> 00:35:32,960
um

961
00:35:37,030 --> 00:35:34,800
some people who were at the airport had

962
00:35:38,390 --> 00:35:37,040
seen this thing it was hovering in the

963
00:35:40,390 --> 00:35:38,400
sky

964
00:35:41,430 --> 00:35:40,400
over this terminal for i think like 20

965
00:35:43,670 --> 00:35:41,440
minutes

966
00:35:44,470 --> 00:35:43,680
and then it basically it was an overcast

967
00:35:46,630 --> 00:35:44,480
day

968
00:35:48,790 --> 00:35:46,640
the thing shot straight up into the air

969
00:35:51,109 --> 00:35:48,800
so quickly and without any sound

970
00:35:53,190 --> 00:35:51,119
which is very interesting um

971
00:35:55,430 --> 00:35:53,200
it shot up so fast that it like left

972
00:35:57,109 --> 00:35:55,440
this hole in the cloud cover where

973
00:35:58,630 --> 00:35:57,119
people could see for just a few minutes

974
00:36:00,710 --> 00:35:58,640
or whatever the blue sky is showing

975
00:36:01,829 --> 00:36:00,720
through on the other side of the clouds

976
00:36:04,150 --> 00:36:01,839
um

977
00:36:05,270 --> 00:36:04,160
united tried to squelch this uh this

978
00:36:08,069 --> 00:36:05,280
episode

979
00:36:11,030 --> 00:36:08,079
um and there's been a lot of uh press

980
00:36:12,630 --> 00:36:11,040
coverage it was i believe john helkovic

981
00:36:13,990 --> 00:36:12,640
forget the guys the reporter's name at

982
00:36:15,990 --> 00:36:14,000
the um

983
00:36:17,109 --> 00:36:16,000
at the uh the [\h__\h] was it the chicago

984
00:36:18,310 --> 00:36:17,119
tribune

985
00:36:20,069 --> 00:36:18,320
uh

986
00:36:22,870 --> 00:36:20,079
who had written this thing up i believe

987
00:36:24,870 --> 00:36:22,880
it was the january after it happened

988
00:36:28,230 --> 00:36:24,880
um and it created a huge amount of

989
00:36:31,190 --> 00:36:28,240
interest and narcap being primarily

990
00:36:32,550 --> 00:36:31,200
interested in ufo phenomena that deal

991
00:36:38,950 --> 00:36:32,560
with

992
00:36:41,430 --> 00:36:38,960
they got on it and

993
00:36:43,829 --> 00:36:41,440
my involvement dealt with some image

994
00:36:46,630 --> 00:36:43,839
analysis with some

995
00:36:49,750 --> 00:36:46,640
uh with a particular image that surfaced

996
00:36:51,510 --> 00:36:49,760
that was supposedly supposed to be

997
00:36:53,829 --> 00:36:51,520
an image that was shot

998
00:36:55,430 --> 00:36:53,839
potentially by a pilot who saw this

999
00:36:59,430 --> 00:36:55,440
thing through the airplane

1000
00:37:06,470 --> 00:37:02,069
and myself and a former research partner

1001
00:37:09,670 --> 00:37:07,990
we took a look at this and we came up

1002
00:37:11,270 --> 00:37:09,680
with some interesting conclusions about

1003
00:37:13,589 --> 00:37:11,280
this image

1004
00:37:15,349 --> 00:37:13,599
but specifically primarily focusing on

1005
00:37:16,550 --> 00:37:15,359
my contention that the image had been

1006
00:37:20,870 --> 00:37:16,560
tampered with

1007
00:37:23,109 --> 00:37:20,880
way that seemed to indicate some very

1008
00:37:25,670 --> 00:37:23,119
sophisticated

1009
00:37:28,150 --> 00:37:25,680
attempts to to to not only spread

1010
00:37:29,670 --> 00:37:28,160
disinformation but potentially

1011
00:37:30,470 --> 00:37:29,680
discredit

1012
00:37:33,270 --> 00:37:30,480
uh

1013
00:37:35,270 --> 00:37:33,280
any image analyst who might come out and

1014
00:37:36,550 --> 00:37:35,280
proclaim that the image was legitimate

1015
00:37:39,910 --> 00:37:36,560
and genuine

1016
00:37:42,550 --> 00:37:39,920
um there i found the equivalent

1017
00:37:43,349 --> 00:37:42,560
of a digital fingerprint

1018
00:37:45,589 --> 00:37:43,359
uh

1019
00:37:49,109 --> 00:37:45,599
in the image that indicated that there

1020
00:37:51,349 --> 00:37:49,119
was something very nefarious going on

1021
00:37:53,190 --> 00:37:51,359
and at that point and and

1022
00:37:55,829 --> 00:37:53,200
this had been information i had shared

1023
00:37:58,390 --> 00:37:55,839
with the the narcap folks and so they

1024
00:38:02,950 --> 00:37:58,400
they put me in their report um

1025
00:38:05,829 --> 00:38:02,960
november 7th 2006 was the date of the

1026
00:38:07,589 --> 00:38:05,839
air just fyi yeah

1027
00:38:10,310 --> 00:38:07,599
so uh it was a very interesting

1028
00:38:12,870 --> 00:38:10,320
high-profile ufo case that

1029
00:38:14,150 --> 00:38:12,880
uh generated a certain amount of press

1030
00:38:17,510 --> 00:38:14,160
uh

1031
00:38:20,069 --> 00:38:17,520
interest it generated a huge amount of

1032
00:38:22,069 --> 00:38:20,079
use you know public interest

1033
00:38:23,670 --> 00:38:22,079
i think the uh the tribune said that it

1034
00:38:24,630 --> 00:38:23,680
was um

1035
00:38:26,390 --> 00:38:24,640
the most

1036
00:38:28,550 --> 00:38:26,400
they had the largest number of hits any

1037
00:38:31,589 --> 00:38:28,560
article it ever had on their site

1038
00:38:34,230 --> 00:38:31,599
um but again uh

1039
00:38:36,230 --> 00:38:34,240
what conclusions can we draw from that

1040
00:38:38,710 --> 00:38:36,240
episode let's let's assume for a moment

1041
00:38:40,710 --> 00:38:38,720
that it went down the way that certain

1042
00:38:43,430 --> 00:38:40,720
witnesses claimed it did

1043
00:38:47,670 --> 00:38:45,349
i'll make a statement to you that will

1044
00:38:50,230 --> 00:38:47,680
kind of underscore my own sort of

1045
00:38:51,750 --> 00:38:50,240
tendencies of thinking about the ufo

1046
00:38:54,470 --> 00:38:51,760
phenomena

1047
00:38:55,829 --> 00:38:54,480
which is uh

1048
00:38:58,870 --> 00:38:55,839
and there are many different forms of

1049
00:39:00,270 --> 00:38:58,880
it's not i say phenomena because

1050
00:39:01,829 --> 00:39:00,280
there are multiple types of

1051
00:39:03,910 --> 00:39:01,839
manifestations

1052
00:39:06,150 --> 00:39:03,920
of these things um and there are

1053
00:39:09,270 --> 00:39:06,160
different scales of it

1054
00:39:11,829 --> 00:39:09,280
but my contention is that if something

1055
00:39:13,430 --> 00:39:11,839
is clearly not human technology

1056
00:39:15,190 --> 00:39:13,440
we see it and it flies away from the

1057
00:39:17,910 --> 00:39:15,200
earth

1058
00:39:20,230 --> 00:39:17,920
that is not to say definitively that

1059
00:39:21,349 --> 00:39:20,240
it's not terrestrial

1060
00:39:23,190 --> 00:39:21,359
and that's where things get a little

1061
00:39:25,349 --> 00:39:23,200
complicated

1062
00:39:27,030 --> 00:39:25,359
and and my own line of thinking about a

1063
00:39:30,870 --> 00:39:27,040
lot of these things kept steering me in

1064
00:39:35,349 --> 00:39:32,870
kept telling me that there were levels

1065
00:39:37,430 --> 00:39:35,359
of deception going on here

1066
00:39:38,630 --> 00:39:37,440
that would make it very difficult to

1067
00:39:40,790 --> 00:39:38,640
have

1068
00:39:43,910 --> 00:39:40,800
any kind of statement that was

1069
00:39:46,069 --> 00:39:43,920
absolutely conclusive because i i s

1070
00:39:48,069 --> 00:39:46,079
it's my contention that

1071
00:39:49,910 --> 00:39:48,079
whatever is behind these things does not

1072
00:39:51,829 --> 00:39:49,920
want us to understand

1073
00:39:53,990 --> 00:39:51,839
what's going on

1074
00:39:56,630 --> 00:39:54,000
and that leads me down certain paths

1075
00:39:58,390 --> 00:39:56,640
that are uncomfortable

1076
00:40:01,190 --> 00:39:58,400
um

1077
00:40:03,109 --> 00:40:01,200
because it's it it

1078
00:40:05,030 --> 00:40:03,119
i kept coming up with this idea that by

1079
00:40:07,670 --> 00:40:05,040
the way i had many discussions about

1080
00:40:09,349 --> 00:40:07,680
this both on air and privately with a

1081
00:40:12,150 --> 00:40:09,359
fellow who passed away a number of years

1082
00:40:14,630 --> 00:40:12,160
ago absolutely mac tony's

1083
00:40:16,150 --> 00:40:14,640
um who ended up writing this very short

1084
00:40:18,230 --> 00:40:16,160
book in fact the book was published

1085
00:40:19,589 --> 00:40:18,240
after he died and i don't know that it

1086
00:40:21,990 --> 00:40:19,599
was really complete yet called the

1087
00:40:23,829 --> 00:40:22,000
cryptoterrestrials

1088
00:40:26,069 --> 00:40:23,839
where mac and i have been talking quite

1089
00:40:28,550 --> 00:40:26,079
a bit about the idea that perhaps we

1090
00:40:30,950 --> 00:40:28,560
were not at the top of the evolutionary

1091
00:40:33,990 --> 00:40:30,960
chain of on this planet i sure as hell

1092
00:40:37,349 --> 00:40:34,000
hope we're not because it's a sad

1093
00:40:40,390 --> 00:40:37,359
it's a sad idea if we are

1094
00:40:43,030 --> 00:40:40,400
yeah um but it's a little scary to think

1095
00:40:44,710 --> 00:40:43,040
that maybe if we're not

1096
00:40:47,510 --> 00:40:44,720
that we're not because we're not

1097
00:40:49,670 --> 00:40:47,520
supposed to know we're not

1098
00:40:52,069 --> 00:40:49,680
if this is all this is again

1099
00:40:54,470 --> 00:40:52,079
and part of the problem and having

1100
00:40:56,550 --> 00:40:54,480
useful practical constructive

1101
00:40:58,870 --> 00:40:56,560
discussions about this

1102
00:41:02,630 --> 00:40:58,880
is that if you don't play into

1103
00:41:05,030 --> 00:41:02,640
sort of story threads that already exist

1104
00:41:08,150 --> 00:41:05,040
it gets too weird for people

1105
00:41:08,870 --> 00:41:08,160
right to talk about let's say

1106
00:41:36,870 --> 00:41:08,880
a

1107
00:41:39,030 --> 00:41:36,880
our evolution which is

1108
00:41:42,470 --> 00:41:39,040
clearly points out that we are not an

1109
00:41:44,230 --> 00:41:42,480
advanced species we are not very evolved

1110
00:41:45,589 --> 00:41:44,240
uh nowhere near as much as we'd like to

1111
00:41:48,150 --> 00:41:45,599
think we are and i'm not even talking

1112
00:41:50,550 --> 00:41:48,160
about the religious people who believe

1113
00:41:53,589 --> 00:41:50,560
were some kind of definitive expression

1114
00:41:55,670 --> 00:41:53,599
of the grand mind and heart and creature

1115
00:41:58,230 --> 00:41:55,680
that created the universe

1116
00:42:00,790 --> 00:41:58,240
i just to me that's just so nonsensical

1117
00:42:01,670 --> 00:42:00,800
is to be really laughable at this point

1118
00:42:03,190 --> 00:42:01,680
um

1119
00:42:05,190 --> 00:42:03,200
but

1120
00:42:07,910 --> 00:42:05,200
we have not been doing science for a

1121
00:42:11,430 --> 00:42:07,920
long time as a species we've been doing

1122
00:42:13,430 --> 00:42:11,440
flight for just over 100 years it's not

1123
00:42:16,390 --> 00:42:13,440
very significant you know we made some

1124
00:42:17,829 --> 00:42:16,400
great strides in the last century you

1125
00:42:20,470 --> 00:42:17,839
know putting

1126
00:42:23,670 --> 00:42:20,480
humans on another planetary body

1127
00:42:26,870 --> 00:42:23,680
which happened in my lifetime was huge

1128
00:42:28,710 --> 00:42:26,880
sadly witnessed the fact that today

1129
00:42:30,230 --> 00:42:28,720
you have a significant number of people

1130
00:42:31,670 --> 00:42:30,240
who refuse to believe that actually

1131
00:42:33,430 --> 00:42:31,680
happened

1132
00:42:36,309 --> 00:42:33,440
you know every time i see the the the

1133
00:42:37,589 --> 00:42:36,319
apollo deniers which drives me nuts

1134
00:42:40,390 --> 00:42:37,599
um

1135
00:42:41,589 --> 00:42:40,400
ever done

1136
00:42:43,430 --> 00:42:41,599
since we

1137
00:42:46,150 --> 00:42:43,440
crawled out of the mud

1138
00:42:47,910 --> 00:42:46,160
and uh people don't want to believe it

1139
00:42:48,790 --> 00:42:47,920
just you know a few decades after it

1140
00:42:52,710 --> 00:42:48,800
happened

1141
00:42:54,470 --> 00:42:52,720
that's very very sad david yes i'm

1142
00:42:56,950 --> 00:42:54,480
wondering i have i have two questions

1143
00:43:00,069 --> 00:42:56,960
here for you that relate and one thing

1144
00:43:02,630 --> 00:43:00,079
is would you say that the general

1145
00:43:03,589 --> 00:43:02,640
direction that you and mactones were

1146
00:43:06,790 --> 00:43:03,599
going

1147
00:43:10,069 --> 00:43:06,800
along uh somewhat mirrored what

1148
00:43:11,990 --> 00:43:10,079
john keel and jacques valet have written

1149
00:43:14,470 --> 00:43:12,000
that's the first question and the second

1150
00:43:16,470 --> 00:43:14,480
question is why do you think we haven't

1151
00:43:18,630 --> 00:43:16,480
gone back to the moon is do you believe

1152
00:43:21,430 --> 00:43:18,640
it's totally financial or do you think

1153
00:43:23,270 --> 00:43:21,440
that perhaps other reasons

1154
00:43:27,190 --> 00:43:23,280
go to the second question first second

1155
00:43:30,630 --> 00:43:27,200
question first um

1156
00:43:31,589 --> 00:43:30,640
i i believe it's political and financial

1157
00:43:33,349 --> 00:43:31,599
um

1158
00:43:35,589 --> 00:43:33,359
when one looks at the context under

1159
00:43:37,829 --> 00:43:35,599
which the american space program played

1160
00:43:41,670 --> 00:43:37,839
out in the 50s and 60s

1161
00:43:43,670 --> 00:43:41,680
and then into the 70s um it was really

1162
00:43:45,349 --> 00:43:43,680
that was more political than anything

1163
00:43:48,550 --> 00:43:45,359
else ultimately

1164
00:43:50,309 --> 00:43:48,560
um you know we were in this grand race

1165
00:43:52,309 --> 00:43:50,319
with the russians

1166
00:43:54,230 --> 00:43:52,319
and it was about the frailty of human

1167
00:43:55,589 --> 00:43:54,240
egos i think more than anything else

1168
00:43:59,430 --> 00:43:55,599
there is a large amount of scientific

1169
00:44:03,270 --> 00:44:01,030
but i don't know that that's necessarily

1170
00:44:06,470 --> 00:44:03,280
what absolutely motivated

1171
00:44:07,829 --> 00:44:06,480
the missions later on the massive costs

1172
00:44:09,430 --> 00:44:07,839
involved

1173
00:44:11,990 --> 00:44:09,440
i think as

1174
00:44:14,470 --> 00:44:12,000
our culture sort of took a different bit

1175
00:44:16,550 --> 00:44:14,480
of a different turn

1176
00:44:19,910 --> 00:44:16,560
those were seen as just simply being

1177
00:44:21,190 --> 00:44:19,920
unsustainable and i think that nowadays

1178
00:44:22,390 --> 00:44:21,200
when you talk about going back to the

1179
00:44:23,270 --> 00:44:22,400
moon

1180
00:44:25,270 --> 00:44:23,280
um

1181
00:44:27,430 --> 00:44:25,280
it's it's a hard sell because of the

1182
00:44:30,309 --> 00:44:27,440
kind of costs involved

1183
00:44:32,069 --> 00:44:30,319
are just so fantastic uh

1184
00:44:33,510 --> 00:44:32,079
and it's it's sad to me because when you

1185
00:44:34,870 --> 00:44:33,520
think about what we could have done with

1186
00:44:38,390 --> 00:44:34,880
all the money that was burned let's say

1187
00:44:40,230 --> 00:44:38,400
in iraq and afghani and afghanistan

1188
00:44:42,470 --> 00:44:40,240
who knows what we could have done

1189
00:44:44,150 --> 00:44:42,480
constructively with that money to

1190
00:44:46,230 --> 00:44:44,160
not only go back to the moon but figure

1191
00:44:49,190 --> 00:44:46,240
out a really good set of reasons to go

1192
00:44:53,430 --> 00:44:51,589
of which there are a number i think that

1193
00:44:54,630 --> 00:44:53,440
the problem part of the problem with the

1194
00:44:56,309 --> 00:44:54,640
masses

1195
00:44:59,030 --> 00:44:56,319
is that they parse all of this and

1196
00:45:01,430 --> 00:44:59,040
through the the almost exclusively

1197
00:45:02,390 --> 00:45:01,440
through the lens of science fiction

1198
00:45:05,430 --> 00:45:02,400
um

1199
00:45:07,349 --> 00:45:05,440
which is all good and fine but it

1200
00:45:09,589 --> 00:45:07,359
you know asks somebody about the

1201
00:45:12,309 --> 00:45:09,599
logistics of actually putting

1202
00:45:14,550 --> 00:45:12,319
a few people on the moon

1203
00:45:18,630 --> 00:45:14,560
and they immediately think in terms of

1204
00:45:19,750 --> 00:45:18,640
sort of the the apollo 13 movie um when

1205
00:45:22,550 --> 00:45:19,760
they're not really thinking about the

1206
00:45:25,750 --> 00:45:22,560
real hardcore engineering involved

1207
00:45:28,230 --> 00:45:25,760
which is rather significant and

1208
00:45:29,829 --> 00:45:28,240
so i i think that that the moon issue is

1209
00:45:34,150 --> 00:45:29,839
just a problem of

1210
00:45:36,870 --> 00:45:34,160
uh uh of societal motivation are

1211
00:45:39,270 --> 00:45:36,880
our societies now much more wrapped up

1212
00:45:42,309 --> 00:45:39,280
with our experience on earth not so much

1213
00:45:45,910 --> 00:45:42,319
in space well i would ask you just

1214
00:45:49,030 --> 00:45:45,920
visually that about the chinese mission

1215
00:45:52,069 --> 00:45:49,040
recently of the jade rabbit that um they

1216
00:45:55,030 --> 00:45:52,079
were on the mission excited about

1217
00:45:57,430 --> 00:45:55,040
and uh they landed this little uh

1218
00:46:01,349 --> 00:45:57,440
robotic device on the moon

1219
00:46:03,430 --> 00:46:01,359
and then the excitement it malfunctioned

1220
00:46:06,230 --> 00:46:03,440
and the excitement disappeared

1221
00:46:07,510 --> 00:46:06,240
um i'm wondering whether there was any

1222
00:46:09,589 --> 00:46:07,520
other

1223
00:46:11,349 --> 00:46:09,599
reason for their you know lack of

1224
00:46:14,470 --> 00:46:11,359
interest or youtube like some nefarious

1225
00:46:17,430 --> 00:46:14,480
reason yes like somebody evil living on

1226
00:46:18,710 --> 00:46:17,440
the moon and saying get off our

1227
00:46:20,550 --> 00:46:18,720
moon

1228
00:46:23,190 --> 00:46:20,560
i think that's why most people think we

1229
00:46:25,190 --> 00:46:23,200
haven't gone back like well warned off

1230
00:46:26,710 --> 00:46:25,200
the moon from that point of view is

1231
00:46:29,750 --> 00:46:26,720
really important to earth i don't know

1232
00:46:31,670 --> 00:46:29,760
that it's important to anyone else

1233
00:46:33,030 --> 00:46:31,680
it's it's very important for us but as

1234
00:46:33,990 --> 00:46:33,040
far as

1235
00:46:36,630 --> 00:46:34,000
uh

1236
00:46:39,190 --> 00:46:36,640
well give me an example of this right

1237
00:46:44,069 --> 00:46:41,349
there are more productive places for

1238
00:46:46,309 --> 00:46:44,079
example to find water

1239
00:46:47,510 --> 00:46:46,319
uh in our solar system as well to the

1240
00:46:49,510 --> 00:46:47,520
moon right

1241
00:46:51,109 --> 00:46:49,520
there are more productive places i think

1242
00:46:55,510 --> 00:46:51,119
potentially to find

1243
00:46:59,670 --> 00:46:57,430
again the moon is really fascinating and

1244
00:47:02,150 --> 00:46:59,680
useful to earth because without it

1245
00:47:03,430 --> 00:47:02,160
uh we'd have a hard time with our tides

1246
00:47:04,470 --> 00:47:03,440
we'd have a

1247
00:47:06,470 --> 00:47:04,480
uh

1248
00:47:08,069 --> 00:47:06,480
our climate would look very different

1249
00:47:11,030 --> 00:47:08,079
yes um

1250
00:47:13,589 --> 00:47:11,040
but this idea that something else

1251
00:47:15,430 --> 00:47:13,599
is on the moon it doesn't want us there

1252
00:47:17,510 --> 00:47:15,440
i think that's a human way of seeing

1253
00:47:19,829 --> 00:47:17,520
things i don't necessarily know that i

1254
00:47:22,230 --> 00:47:19,839
would prescribe that to advanced beings

1255
00:47:23,670 --> 00:47:22,240
thinking that way what about as a as an

1256
00:47:26,470 --> 00:47:23,680
outpost

1257
00:47:27,349 --> 00:47:26,480
to observe us

1258
00:47:30,950 --> 00:47:27,359
rather

1259
00:47:34,150 --> 00:47:30,960
limited humans or even like a crypto

1260
00:47:35,990 --> 00:47:34,160
human or crypto-terrestrial or whatever

1261
00:47:39,190 --> 00:47:36,000
because i agree with you i mean it seems

1262
00:47:41,589 --> 00:47:39,200
like most of these things spring from

1263
00:47:43,510 --> 00:47:41,599
right around here if not just earth

1264
00:47:44,550 --> 00:47:43,520
maybe the moon as well

1265
00:47:46,790 --> 00:47:44,560
well

1266
00:47:48,069 --> 00:47:46,800
okay a couple of things first of all i

1267
00:47:50,950 --> 00:47:48,079
don't think that

1268
00:47:52,790 --> 00:47:50,960
humans at this point have a tremendously

1269
00:47:54,150 --> 00:47:52,800
excellent grasp on the true history of

1270
00:47:55,990 --> 00:47:54,160
our planet

1271
00:47:57,270 --> 00:47:56,000
i don't think we do i think that there

1272
00:48:00,710 --> 00:47:57,280
are

1273
00:48:03,109 --> 00:48:00,720
very likely more things that we suspect

1274
00:48:04,950 --> 00:48:03,119
are real are actually incorrect

1275
00:48:07,430 --> 00:48:04,960
about the history of this planet and

1276
00:48:09,349 --> 00:48:07,440
again i i come back to this simple idea

1277
00:48:11,430 --> 00:48:09,359
and this is based on

1278
00:48:12,710 --> 00:48:11,440
by the way humility when i would talk

1279
00:48:14,630 --> 00:48:12,720
about these things on the paracast

1280
00:48:15,829 --> 00:48:14,640
people would attack me saying

1281
00:48:17,829 --> 00:48:15,839
who do you think you know everything

1282
00:48:19,270 --> 00:48:17,839
it's like no i i think i actually assume

1283
00:48:21,589 --> 00:48:19,280
i know nothing

1284
00:48:23,750 --> 00:48:21,599
and so starting from that place i'm not

1285
00:48:24,630 --> 00:48:23,760
willing to to draw conclusions i just

1286
00:48:27,030 --> 00:48:24,640
want to

1287
00:48:28,710 --> 00:48:27,040
basically open up the thought process

1288
00:48:30,950 --> 00:48:28,720
around this

1289
00:48:34,230 --> 00:48:30,960
what are one of the things that you

1290
00:48:37,349 --> 00:48:34,240
think that are accept is accepted about

1291
00:48:38,710 --> 00:48:37,359
human history or the planet's history

1292
00:48:41,589 --> 00:48:38,720
that like some

1293
00:48:43,670 --> 00:48:41,599
quasi-scientific accepted

1294
00:48:45,910 --> 00:48:43,680
um

1295
00:48:47,510 --> 00:48:45,920
fact that is a factoid shall we say that

1296
00:48:48,950 --> 00:48:47,520
isn't really

1297
00:48:52,549 --> 00:48:48,960
likely

1298
00:48:54,710 --> 00:48:52,559
yeah that you think that you in other

1299
00:48:56,790 --> 00:48:54,720
words you had just said that that we're

1300
00:48:58,950 --> 00:48:56,800
going to come upon at some juncture that

1301
00:49:01,030 --> 00:48:58,960
many of the things that we've accepted

1302
00:49:03,430 --> 00:49:01,040
about the planetary history and humans

1303
00:49:06,150 --> 00:49:03,440
on the planet is going to prove to be

1304
00:49:08,549 --> 00:49:06,160
false um i'm not disputing that that may

1305
00:49:11,109 --> 00:49:08,559
very well be the case especially in the

1306
00:49:14,069 --> 00:49:11,119
case of certain artifacts that

1307
00:49:16,390 --> 00:49:14,079
appear to have been found and um you

1308
00:49:19,349 --> 00:49:16,400
know the the dating on the sphinx and

1309
00:49:22,950 --> 00:49:19,359
and and the new uh

1310
00:49:24,230 --> 00:49:22,960
findings out there in turkey of the um

1311
00:49:26,790 --> 00:49:24,240
of the uh

1312
00:49:28,950 --> 00:49:26,800
what's the twenty thousand-year-old oh i

1313
00:49:31,430 --> 00:49:28,960
can't think of it oh god b

1314
00:49:34,150 --> 00:49:31,440
to start with the b anyway

1315
00:49:35,030 --> 00:49:34,160
but what what a what are um

1316
00:49:37,750 --> 00:49:35,040
what are

1317
00:49:39,190 --> 00:49:37,760
one thing what is one thing that is is

1318
00:49:45,589 --> 00:49:39,200
significant

1319
00:49:49,190 --> 00:49:45,599
uh like the three-toed sloths once had

1320
00:49:50,710 --> 00:49:49,200
four toes or something like that

1321
00:49:53,349 --> 00:49:50,720
oh

1322
00:49:54,549 --> 00:49:53,359
well i'll give you one example okay

1323
00:49:55,829 --> 00:49:54,559
because you were talking about the moon

1324
00:49:58,950 --> 00:49:55,839
before right

1325
00:50:01,109 --> 00:49:58,960
yes um

1326
00:50:03,270 --> 00:50:01,119
there are many theories floating around

1327
00:50:04,630 --> 00:50:03,280
about how the moon got where it is where

1328
00:50:06,630 --> 00:50:04,640
it came from

1329
00:50:08,549 --> 00:50:06,640
why it has this sort of

1330
00:50:09,589 --> 00:50:08,559
incredible balance with respect to our

1331
00:50:11,589 --> 00:50:09,599
planet

1332
00:50:12,390 --> 00:50:11,599
um i don't think we're anywhere close to

1333
00:50:14,710 --> 00:50:12,400
having

1334
00:50:16,390 --> 00:50:14,720
real knowledge of the sourcing of our

1335
00:50:18,549 --> 00:50:16,400
moon it's older than the earth

1336
00:50:20,790 --> 00:50:18,559
apparently that's what they've

1337
00:50:22,069 --> 00:50:20,800
said

1338
00:50:24,309 --> 00:50:22,079
no

1339
00:50:29,030 --> 00:50:24,319
well possibly

1340
00:50:31,030 --> 00:50:29,040
based on one rock yeah uh uh

1341
00:50:32,950 --> 00:50:31,040
it's fascinating i'll tell you uh

1342
00:50:35,510 --> 00:50:32,960
actually ferrous and i tried to do a

1343
00:50:37,589 --> 00:50:35,520
show once on the moon and remember that

1344
00:50:39,750 --> 00:50:37,599
because there's so many

1345
00:50:42,150 --> 00:50:39,760
unanswered questions about well and

1346
00:50:44,309 --> 00:50:42,160
there's a lot of noise around the moon

1347
00:50:46,950 --> 00:50:44,319
suggesting you know for example

1348
00:50:49,030 --> 00:50:46,960
even recently there had been a a special

1349
00:50:49,910 --> 00:50:49,040
on one of the cable television channels

1350
00:50:52,150 --> 00:50:49,920
about

1351
00:50:54,549 --> 00:50:52,160
all of the anomalous imagery on the moon

1352
00:50:55,349 --> 00:50:54,559
and then they ended with that horrible

1353
00:50:56,470 --> 00:50:55,359
yeah

1354
00:50:58,549 --> 00:50:56,480
horrible

1355
00:51:01,109 --> 00:50:58,559
waxed dummies up there it was just an

1356
00:51:02,549 --> 00:51:01,119
asian woman it just just terrible the

1357
00:51:04,710 --> 00:51:02,559
whole thing was i think just a real

1358
00:51:07,910 --> 00:51:04,720
problem it was kiviat wasn't it again

1359
00:51:09,829 --> 00:51:07,920
yeah bob kivia another complete bs

1360
00:51:12,230 --> 00:51:09,839
artist who at this point you know is

1361
00:51:14,150 --> 00:51:12,240
vetted we know who he is yes we know

1362
00:51:15,589 --> 00:51:14,160
he's an entertainer he's got nothing to

1363
00:51:17,670 --> 00:51:15,599
do with research

1364
00:51:19,430 --> 00:51:17,680
so he's tainted and we said we wouldn't

1365
00:51:21,430 --> 00:51:19,440
talk about tainted personality no we

1366
00:51:24,150 --> 00:51:21,440
won't i just i couldn't help saying it

1367
00:51:27,030 --> 00:51:24,160
because it just brought up such a i was

1368
00:51:29,270 --> 00:51:27,040
watching that and it was yeah there was

1369
00:51:31,670 --> 00:51:29,280
some interesting things and some not so

1370
00:51:34,829 --> 00:51:31,680
interesting things and then they dragged

1371
00:51:37,910 --> 00:51:34,839
out that folks figure of the asian woman

1372
00:51:39,510 --> 00:51:37,920
right so here's the thing um

1373
00:51:41,990 --> 00:51:39,520
the vast majority of what was on that

1374
00:51:44,069 --> 00:51:42,000
show to me was just absolute junk

1375
00:51:47,109 --> 00:51:44,079
there are a handful and in particular

1376
00:51:49,109 --> 00:51:47,119
there's one image in particular

1377
00:51:50,549 --> 00:51:49,119
of something of an artifact on the moon

1378
00:51:52,470 --> 00:51:50,559
now most of what they covered in that

1379
00:51:54,549 --> 00:51:52,480
show to me was very prosaic very

1380
00:51:56,950 --> 00:51:54,559
explainable a lot of it had to do with

1381
00:51:59,430 --> 00:51:56,960
old imagery they were looking at where

1382
00:52:01,109 --> 00:51:59,440
uh they were seeing degraded images and

1383
00:52:03,030 --> 00:52:01,119
they were they were making assumptions

1384
00:52:05,349 --> 00:52:03,040
based on degraded images

1385
00:52:07,270 --> 00:52:05,359
um a terrible problem but there is one

1386
00:52:09,829 --> 00:52:07,280
particular image

1387
00:52:11,910 --> 00:52:09,839
of and and the problem is i i've not

1388
00:52:14,309 --> 00:52:11,920
done the time to go and do the research

1389
00:52:15,190 --> 00:52:14,319
to find out what is the scale of this

1390
00:52:17,670 --> 00:52:15,200
thing

1391
00:52:19,430 --> 00:52:17,680
uh is it in a place where potentially

1392
00:52:21,430 --> 00:52:19,440
some maybe a russian

1393
00:52:23,750 --> 00:52:21,440
probe at some point crashed and put

1394
00:52:25,589 --> 00:52:23,760
itself on there but there is a one set

1395
00:52:27,270 --> 00:52:25,599
of structures on the moon that look to

1396
00:52:28,710 --> 00:52:27,280
me to my eye

1397
00:52:30,710 --> 00:52:28,720
like some kind of

1398
00:52:32,470 --> 00:52:30,720
cogs or wheels

1399
00:52:33,589 --> 00:52:32,480
where the image the the image of what

1400
00:52:35,109 --> 00:52:33,599
we're seeing

1401
00:52:37,670 --> 00:52:35,119
to my mind

1402
00:52:39,109 --> 00:52:37,680
is clearly manufactured it is not a

1403
00:52:40,870 --> 00:52:39,119
natural thing

1404
00:52:42,790 --> 00:52:40,880
and and i say this with the idea that

1405
00:52:45,430 --> 00:52:42,800
i've seen so many people put so many

1406
00:52:47,349 --> 00:52:45,440
images not just of the moon but of mars

1407
00:52:48,790 --> 00:52:47,359
things that definitely have prosaic

1408
00:52:51,510 --> 00:52:48,800
explanations where

1409
00:52:56,230 --> 00:52:53,910
a paradilia comes in and people see what

1410
00:52:59,430 --> 00:52:56,240
their brain tells them they want to see

1411
00:53:01,349 --> 00:52:59,440
um but there's one photo in particular

1412
00:53:03,270 --> 00:53:01,359
uh of this one thing structure on the

1413
00:53:04,950 --> 00:53:03,280
moon that to me

1414
00:53:06,150 --> 00:53:04,960
it it wants

1415
00:53:11,349 --> 00:53:06,160
further

1416
00:53:12,309 --> 00:53:11,359
sort of establish what what isn't it

1417
00:53:15,349 --> 00:53:12,319
um

1418
00:53:17,270 --> 00:53:15,359
which might suggest possibly

1419
00:53:19,750 --> 00:53:17,280
that maybe there had been a

1420
00:53:22,309 --> 00:53:19,760
technologically sophisticated

1421
00:53:23,349 --> 00:53:22,319
uh uh

1422
00:53:25,270 --> 00:53:23,359
visitors

1423
00:53:27,349 --> 00:53:25,280
no not visitor a

1424
00:53:29,349 --> 00:53:27,359
society on this planet

1425
00:53:30,470 --> 00:53:29,359
that at some point potentially destroyed

1426
00:53:33,030 --> 00:53:30,480
itself

1427
00:53:35,349 --> 00:53:33,040
oh on this planet on this planet okay i

1428
00:53:37,589 --> 00:53:35,359
was saying visitor to the moon

1429
00:53:39,109 --> 00:53:37,599
right from here would be visitors from

1430
00:53:42,069 --> 00:53:39,119
whoever from here

1431
00:53:44,630 --> 00:53:42,079
so that's i'm not saying i believe that

1432
00:53:46,790 --> 00:53:44,640
but i'm saying that it's as

1433
00:53:48,710 --> 00:53:46,800
possible as anything else from my point

1434
00:53:50,630 --> 00:53:48,720
of view because i keep coming back to

1435
00:53:52,069 --> 00:53:50,640
this idea that

1436
00:53:53,670 --> 00:53:52,079
what for example

1437
00:53:55,670 --> 00:53:53,680
understanding the history of life on the

1438
00:53:58,710 --> 00:53:55,680
planet right

1439
00:54:00,870 --> 00:53:58,720
right now the the biologist edward o

1440
00:54:03,030 --> 00:54:00,880
wilson is probably the the smartest

1441
00:54:04,790 --> 00:54:03,040
biologist on the face of the earth an

1442
00:54:06,790 --> 00:54:04,800
unsung hero

1443
00:54:08,790 --> 00:54:06,800
just a brilliant brilliant man

1444
00:54:11,430 --> 00:54:08,800
where a handful of years ago he was on

1445
00:54:12,950 --> 00:54:11,440
the bill moyers show and moyers says

1446
00:54:14,390 --> 00:54:12,960
some something like well you know we we

1447
00:54:17,190 --> 00:54:14,400
know about the majority of life on the

1448
00:54:19,270 --> 00:54:17,200
planet and and wilson's like no no no

1449
00:54:21,430 --> 00:54:19,280
no we we have not discovered the vast

1450
00:54:24,630 --> 00:54:21,440
majority of life on the planet

1451
00:54:27,030 --> 00:54:24,640
and wilson posited that it was probably

1452
00:54:28,710 --> 00:54:27,040
around 85 percent

1453
00:54:30,790 --> 00:54:28,720
of the life on the planet remains

1454
00:54:32,230 --> 00:54:30,800
unknown to us and yeah a bunch of it are

1455
00:54:35,510 --> 00:54:32,240
insects and

1456
00:54:38,549 --> 00:54:35,520
uh uh and microbial life but at the same

1457
00:54:39,990 --> 00:54:38,559
time we're still finding new mammals gee

1458
00:54:42,230 --> 00:54:40,000
underneath of the ice packs in the

1459
00:54:43,510 --> 00:54:42,240
arctic we're finding creatures that

1460
00:54:45,030 --> 00:54:43,520
aren't supposed to be able to live down

1461
00:54:47,430 --> 00:54:45,040
that deep under those kind of pressures

1462
00:54:49,910 --> 00:54:47,440
and that kind of cold um

1463
00:54:51,510 --> 00:54:49,920
so let's assume for a minute that

1464
00:54:52,870 --> 00:54:51,520
wilson is correct i'll give him the

1465
00:54:54,870 --> 00:54:52,880
benefit of the doubt because he's a

1466
00:54:56,950 --> 00:54:54,880
really smart guy who spent his entire

1467
00:54:58,790 --> 00:54:56,960
life studying this well you must like

1468
00:55:01,109 --> 00:54:58,800
him because he is i love him he's a

1469
00:55:03,349 --> 00:55:01,119
naturalist and he does exactly what you

1470
00:55:06,309 --> 00:55:03,359
do he just looks at things

1471
00:55:09,430 --> 00:55:06,319
and he goes okay this is x that's y so x

1472
00:55:11,910 --> 00:55:09,440
plus y oh it does equal z right and he

1473
00:55:14,710 --> 00:55:11,920
doesn't put any there's no overlapping

1474
00:55:17,270 --> 00:55:14,720
on it no no he's a true scientist yes he

1475
00:55:19,510 --> 00:55:17,280
is um uh uh so

1476
00:55:20,790 --> 00:55:19,520
if we assume that he's correct right now

1477
00:55:22,950 --> 00:55:20,800
we look at

1478
00:55:26,630 --> 00:55:22,960
our study of life on this planet

1479
00:55:28,549 --> 00:55:26,640
primarily based on the fossil record

1480
00:55:31,109 --> 00:55:28,559
so okay that's good and fine there are

1481
00:55:33,510 --> 00:55:31,119
tons of fossils of interesting creatures

1482
00:55:35,910 --> 00:55:33,520
but then one begins to understand that

1483
00:55:38,549 --> 00:55:35,920
in the case of fossils

1484
00:55:40,069 --> 00:55:38,559
fossils form under specific sets of

1485
00:55:42,710 --> 00:55:40,079
conditions

1486
00:55:44,950 --> 00:55:42,720
fossils are not universal

1487
00:55:46,309 --> 00:55:44,960
they show up more in certain places on

1488
00:55:48,950 --> 00:55:46,319
earth than others

1489
00:55:50,630 --> 00:55:48,960
and things that are likely to be

1490
00:55:52,870 --> 00:55:50,640
fossilized

1491
00:55:55,589 --> 00:55:52,880
probably ended up

1492
00:55:57,349 --> 00:55:55,599
collapsing into a bog there were certain

1493
00:56:00,309 --> 00:55:57,359
types of uh

1494
00:56:03,430 --> 00:56:00,319
ground that facilitated

1495
00:56:04,710 --> 00:56:03,440
the creatures with exoskeletons making

1496
00:56:07,990 --> 00:56:04,720
impressions

1497
00:56:09,990 --> 00:56:08,000
um the fossil record

1498
00:56:11,270 --> 00:56:10,000
is

1499
00:56:12,789 --> 00:56:11,280
in no way

1500
00:56:15,349 --> 00:56:12,799
in my mind

1501
00:56:18,390 --> 00:56:15,359
a complete accounting of life on earth

1502
00:56:20,230 --> 00:56:18,400
in fact if we assume that wilson is

1503
00:56:21,829 --> 00:56:20,240
right and we're not aware currently of

1504
00:56:23,109 --> 00:56:21,839
the majority of species that have lived

1505
00:56:25,030 --> 00:56:23,119
on the planet

1506
00:56:26,950 --> 00:56:25,040
then just statistically

1507
00:56:28,630 --> 00:56:26,960
one that looks at the amount of fossils

1508
00:56:30,309 --> 00:56:28,640
that have been collected

1509
00:56:31,670 --> 00:56:30,319
and the conditions under which shows

1510
00:56:35,030 --> 00:56:31,680
fossils

1511
00:56:36,950 --> 00:56:35,040
would have actually been created and one

1512
00:56:38,470 --> 00:56:36,960
realized that if there's a very good

1513
00:56:40,630 --> 00:56:38,480
likelihood

1514
00:56:42,230 --> 00:56:40,640
that the majority of life that has lived

1515
00:56:44,630 --> 00:56:42,240
on this planet

1516
00:56:45,910 --> 00:56:44,640
never produced fossils and is unknown to

1517
00:56:48,150 --> 00:56:45,920
us

1518
00:56:50,309 --> 00:56:48,160
it could you could very easily make this

1519
00:56:51,430 --> 00:56:50,319
argument and back it up with some real

1520
00:56:53,829 --> 00:56:51,440
data

1521
00:56:55,510 --> 00:56:53,839
so just assuming that the fossil record

1522
00:56:56,950 --> 00:56:55,520
gives us the full picture of what

1523
00:57:00,470 --> 00:56:56,960
happened here

1524
00:57:02,549 --> 00:57:00,480
i think is is extremely problematic and

1525
00:57:04,390 --> 00:57:02,559
and most likely

1526
00:57:06,390 --> 00:57:04,400
is erroneous

1527
00:57:08,309 --> 00:57:06,400
and and then i'm going to throw the my

1528
00:57:11,670 --> 00:57:08,319
big overlay on this which has always

1529
00:57:13,589 --> 00:57:11,680
been my my thought which is that

1530
00:57:15,109 --> 00:57:13,599
we tend to

1531
00:57:17,190 --> 00:57:15,119
parse life

1532
00:57:19,270 --> 00:57:17,200
based on our understanding and our

1533
00:57:22,710 --> 00:57:19,280
experience of what it is

1534
00:57:25,190 --> 00:57:22,720
and i think that that is very limiting

1535
00:57:27,510 --> 00:57:25,200
and it's a it's a limitation of our own

1536
00:57:28,710 --> 00:57:27,520
senses and our own evolution

1537
00:57:31,270 --> 00:57:28,720
all right

1538
00:57:33,109 --> 00:57:31,280
humans still have the you take most

1539
00:57:35,750 --> 00:57:33,119
scientific thinkers

1540
00:57:36,549 --> 00:57:35,760
and you throw the the gaia theory at

1541
00:57:38,230 --> 00:57:36,559
them

1542
00:57:39,190 --> 00:57:38,240
and they they kind of melt down they

1543
00:57:41,589 --> 00:57:39,200
don't

1544
00:57:44,069 --> 00:57:41,599
want to believe they have a huge problem

1545
00:57:45,349 --> 00:57:44,079
believing or accepting in any way the

1546
00:57:48,150 --> 00:57:45,359
idea

1547
00:57:50,230 --> 00:57:48,160
that maybe the planet is actually some

1548
00:57:52,630 --> 00:57:50,240
form of organization of life that has

1549
00:57:54,549 --> 00:57:52,640
some meta intelligence

1550
00:57:57,109 --> 00:57:54,559
and this is where we now tie back into

1551
00:58:00,150 --> 00:57:57,119
what jacques valet was positing

1552
00:58:02,950 --> 00:58:00,160
which is that made he thought maybe ufos

1553
00:58:05,910 --> 00:58:02,960
and the ufo phenomenon was

1554
00:58:08,069 --> 00:58:05,920
some attempt from some un misunderstood

1555
00:58:09,030 --> 00:58:08,079
or completely unknown mechanism in the

1556
00:58:11,589 --> 00:58:09,040
planet

1557
00:58:13,670 --> 00:58:11,599
to sort of jump start our evolution

1558
00:58:15,589 --> 00:58:13,680
and to get us to like quickly evolve

1559
00:58:17,589 --> 00:58:15,599
because maybe there's some dire stuff

1560
00:58:19,430 --> 00:58:17,599
happening that we need to like really

1561
00:58:20,950 --> 00:58:19,440
open up our minds about in order to

1562
00:58:23,190 --> 00:58:20,960
potentially

1563
00:58:25,030 --> 00:58:23,200
make some constructive moves

1564
00:58:27,750 --> 00:58:25,040
and that was that was one of the things

1565
00:58:29,750 --> 00:58:27,760
that valet put forward that maybe ufos

1566
00:58:32,470 --> 00:58:29,760
were some sort of a of a control

1567
00:58:34,870 --> 00:58:32,480
mechanism on the part of the planet

1568
00:58:38,390 --> 00:58:34,880
uh i don't know if i can

1569
00:58:40,470 --> 00:58:38,400
really can completely accept that

1570
00:58:42,069 --> 00:58:40,480
i have a few issues with it

1571
00:58:45,270 --> 00:58:42,079
um

1572
00:58:47,990 --> 00:58:45,280
but it's certainly possible well it kind

1573
00:58:50,390 --> 00:58:48,000
of uh i think the crux of the matter

1574
00:58:52,789 --> 00:58:50,400
that you began to speak about just

1575
00:58:54,870 --> 00:58:52,799
previous to mentioning valet and when

1576
00:58:58,630 --> 00:58:54,880
you started to talk about the gaia

1577
00:59:01,589 --> 00:58:58,640
principle and a lot of science not being

1578
00:59:02,950 --> 00:59:01,599
able to really uh get their uh head

1579
00:59:06,630 --> 00:59:02,960
around that

1580
00:59:08,870 --> 00:59:06,640
it comes down to me for the meaning of

1581
00:59:11,910 --> 00:59:08,880
life is life

1582
00:59:15,109 --> 00:59:11,920
have to be something that is breathing

1583
00:59:18,470 --> 00:59:15,119
or is life about consciousness

1584
00:59:20,630 --> 00:59:18,480
and that's where i think many in the

1585
00:59:22,470 --> 00:59:20,640
scientific fields

1586
00:59:24,950 --> 00:59:22,480
kind of boggle

1587
00:59:27,750 --> 00:59:24,960
over that because

1588
00:59:29,109 --> 00:59:27,760
science has not been able to

1589
00:59:33,510 --> 00:59:29,119
really

1590
00:59:35,589 --> 00:59:33,520
explain what consciousness is but to me

1591
00:59:38,230 --> 00:59:35,599
um you know you talk about the word

1592
00:59:40,870 --> 00:59:38,240
believe and i have a lot of problems

1593
00:59:42,630 --> 00:59:40,880
with it as well but when it comes to the

1594
00:59:45,670 --> 00:59:42,640
gaia principle

1595
00:59:47,349 --> 00:59:45,680
i'm i'm as close to believing that as i

1596
00:59:48,470 --> 00:59:47,359
am to believing

1597
00:59:50,230 --> 00:59:48,480
anything

1598
00:59:52,710 --> 00:59:50,240
and um

1599
00:59:53,670 --> 00:59:52,720
so i think that the real problem there

1600
00:59:54,950 --> 00:59:53,680
is

1601
00:59:57,589 --> 00:59:54,960
how do you

1602
01:00:03,190 --> 00:59:57,599
uh define life is it about

1603
01:00:06,870 --> 01:00:05,190
well my personal belief along these

1604
01:00:08,549 --> 01:00:06,880
lines based on

1605
01:00:10,870 --> 01:00:08,559
an experience that i've talked about in

1606
01:00:13,829 --> 01:00:10,880
multiple venues when my my mother passed

1607
01:00:16,390 --> 01:00:13,839
away right where she did something that

1608
01:00:18,549 --> 01:00:16,400
we had spoken about before she died

1609
01:00:20,390 --> 01:00:18,559
which was to give me some sort of sign

1610
01:00:22,309 --> 01:00:20,400
of continuance

1611
01:00:24,630 --> 01:00:22,319
um and we don't probably don't have time

1612
01:00:26,870 --> 01:00:24,640
in this show to get into that story but

1613
01:00:31,349 --> 01:00:26,880
she did something that to me strongly

1614
01:00:32,630 --> 01:00:31,359
indicated a persistence of identity post

1615
01:00:34,390 --> 01:00:32,640
post-death

1616
01:00:39,589 --> 01:00:34,400
um

1617
01:00:40,710 --> 01:00:39,599
it was something that i feel she did for

1618
01:00:44,789 --> 01:00:40,720
me

1619
01:00:47,109 --> 01:00:44,799
to address a request i had made of her

1620
01:00:49,510 --> 01:00:47,119
before she died um

1621
01:00:50,630 --> 01:00:49,520
now that to me would suggest

1622
01:00:52,309 --> 01:00:50,640
and again this is the kind of thing

1623
01:00:54,069 --> 01:00:52,319
where you know an atheist hears this and

1624
01:00:55,750 --> 01:00:54,079
immediately he's like oh what are you

1625
01:00:57,589 --> 01:00:55,760
some god breather so you believe there's

1626
01:00:59,589 --> 01:00:57,599
continuous after death that's like dude

1627
01:01:02,470 --> 01:00:59,599
dude slow down

1628
01:01:03,589 --> 01:01:02,480
this this connection

1629
01:01:07,190 --> 01:01:03,599
of

1630
01:01:10,390 --> 01:01:07,200
a interest in in in afterlife afterlife

1631
01:01:13,829 --> 01:01:10,400
defined as some sort of continuity

1632
01:01:16,470 --> 01:01:13,839
after death in my mind has no connection

1633
01:01:18,470 --> 01:01:16,480
to what religion considers to be god

1634
01:01:19,829 --> 01:01:18,480
i don't see why those two are always

1635
01:01:22,789 --> 01:01:19,839
tied together but

1636
01:01:24,549 --> 01:01:22,799
part of that is cultural conditioning

1637
01:01:26,150 --> 01:01:24,559
that's how people have been taught to

1638
01:01:27,349 --> 01:01:26,160
believe these things as far as life is

1639
01:01:30,710 --> 01:01:27,359
concerned

1640
01:01:32,390 --> 01:01:30,720
um if we look at individual human beings

1641
01:01:34,630 --> 01:01:32,400
now that we call a human being a

1642
01:01:36,630 --> 01:01:34,640
sentient being

1643
01:01:39,349 --> 01:01:36,640
but then we see

1644
01:01:41,829 --> 01:01:39,359
that humans and groups start to be start

1645
01:01:43,030 --> 01:01:41,839
to exhibit certain types of behavioral

1646
01:01:44,470 --> 01:01:43,040
patterns

1647
01:01:47,270 --> 01:01:44,480
that seem to

1648
01:01:48,630 --> 01:01:47,280
exist outside of the internal experience

1649
01:01:50,789 --> 01:01:48,640
of the individual

1650
01:01:52,870 --> 01:01:50,799
well is that group intelligence going on

1651
01:01:54,710 --> 01:01:52,880
what is what are those dynamics

1652
01:01:55,750 --> 01:01:54,720
and now if we sort of come away from

1653
01:01:57,430 --> 01:01:55,760
that

1654
01:01:59,190 --> 01:01:57,440
well uh

1655
01:02:01,510 --> 01:01:59,200
the earth is seems to be some kind of a

1656
01:02:04,789 --> 01:02:01,520
closed loop feedback system

1657
01:02:07,190 --> 01:02:04,799
uh stuff comes in from space and maybe

1658
01:02:08,549 --> 01:02:07,200
based on the panspermia theory maybe

1659
01:02:12,309 --> 01:02:08,559
that's how life started on earth by

1660
01:02:14,789 --> 01:02:12,319
something crashing into here and finding

1661
01:02:17,030 --> 01:02:14,799
a a hospitable environment and maybe

1662
01:02:18,870 --> 01:02:17,040
that's how the water got here we have

1663
01:02:20,950 --> 01:02:18,880
lots of theories about these things and

1664
01:02:24,950 --> 01:02:20,960
some are more viable than others

1665
01:02:26,069 --> 01:02:24,960
um but it's it's to me it it it still

1666
01:02:29,349 --> 01:02:26,079
gives us

1667
01:02:31,030 --> 01:02:29,359
i think a working model in that we can

1668
01:02:34,230 --> 01:02:31,040
start to think that there are

1669
01:02:37,510 --> 01:02:34,240
connections between life on the planet

1670
01:02:40,150 --> 01:02:37,520
different forms of life that we simply

1671
01:02:42,309 --> 01:02:40,160
are not in a position to understand our

1672
01:02:44,630 --> 01:02:42,319
science is simply

1673
01:02:45,430 --> 01:02:44,640
not that good yet

1674
01:02:46,870 --> 01:02:45,440
um

1675
01:02:48,870 --> 01:02:46,880
and it's part of it as a limit of

1676
01:02:51,910 --> 01:02:48,880
technology where we rely on

1677
01:02:55,030 --> 01:02:51,920
instrumentation for science we rely on

1678
01:02:57,270 --> 01:02:55,040
repeatability and consistency and there

1679
01:02:59,670 --> 01:02:57,280
are aspects of the study of for example

1680
01:03:02,789 --> 01:02:59,680
particle physics that start to suggest

1681
01:03:05,109 --> 01:03:02,799
that repeatability and consistency are

1682
01:03:07,270 --> 01:03:05,119
not as repeatable and consistent as we'd

1683
01:03:08,150 --> 01:03:07,280
like them to be

1684
01:03:09,750 --> 01:03:08,160
um

1685
01:03:12,390 --> 01:03:09,760
and that by the way is the problem in

1686
01:03:14,789 --> 01:03:12,400
trying to talk about the anomalous and

1687
01:03:17,029 --> 01:03:14,799
that the scientific mind says you've got

1688
01:03:18,549 --> 01:03:17,039
to be able to repeat something if you

1689
01:03:21,029 --> 01:03:18,559
can repeat it then i'm even willing to

1690
01:03:23,190 --> 01:03:21,039
listen to you and the problem being that

1691
01:03:25,750 --> 01:03:23,200
we don't control

1692
01:03:26,950 --> 01:03:25,760
how most anomalous events

1693
01:03:28,950 --> 01:03:26,960
genuine

1694
01:03:31,589 --> 01:03:28,960
quote-unquote anomalous events

1695
01:03:33,829 --> 01:03:31,599
humans have no control over them

1696
01:03:35,430 --> 01:03:33,839
and david i hate to say this because i

1697
01:03:37,589 --> 01:03:35,440
could go on talking to you for at least

1698
01:03:40,230 --> 01:03:37,599
another 10 hours we're out of time but

1699
01:03:43,190 --> 01:03:40,240
alpha has become omega and we have

1700
01:03:45,029 --> 01:03:43,200
agreed that there is just not enough

1701
01:03:47,510 --> 01:03:45,039
evidence well

1702
01:03:50,549 --> 01:03:47,520
can we say certainly that we would love

1703
01:03:53,190 --> 01:03:50,559
to have you back again and talk with us

1704
01:03:57,190 --> 01:03:53,200
again please come back and i wanted to

1705
01:03:59,829 --> 01:03:57,200
say that david also has his own podcast

1706
01:04:02,710 --> 01:03:59,839
which is called the angry human which is

1707
01:04:05,270 --> 01:04:02,720
also a radio show on rockland world

1708
01:04:07,829 --> 01:04:05,280
radio and if you want to give the time

1709
01:04:09,910 --> 01:04:07,839
of that show please feel free

1710
01:04:11,349 --> 01:04:09,920
is it a call-in show too uh it's not a

1711
01:04:12,950 --> 01:04:11,359
collins show though we get a lot of

1712
01:04:13,990 --> 01:04:12,960
requests for that

1713
01:04:17,510 --> 01:04:14,000
um

1714
01:04:20,309 --> 01:04:17,520
it's on uh wednesday nights at uh

1715
01:04:22,630 --> 01:04:20,319
uh it's typically 8 30 to 9 30 eastern

1716
01:04:24,950 --> 01:04:22,640
time actually i would just say anybody

1717
01:04:28,069 --> 01:04:24,960
go into any search engine right just

1718
01:04:30,549 --> 01:04:28,079
type the words angry human two words

1719
01:04:31,990 --> 01:04:30,559
and uh in the 200 something million hits

1720
01:04:34,710 --> 01:04:32,000
you'll get yeah

1721
01:04:36,950 --> 01:04:34,720
the show page is the very first tip

1722
01:04:39,829 --> 01:04:36,960
wow well that well thank you so very

1723
01:04:43,750 --> 01:04:39,839
much and uh i am sure that some of our

1724
01:04:47,029 --> 01:04:43,760
listeners will want to make comments at

1725
01:04:47,039 --> 01:04:50,950
that's shatteredrealitypodcast.com

1726
01:04:55,589 --> 01:04:52,630
please

1727
01:04:58,069 --> 01:04:55,599
write in ask questions

1728
01:05:00,549 --> 01:04:58,079
ask about having particular guests on

1729
01:05:01,349 --> 01:05:00,559
that you would like to hear and i just

1730
01:05:03,750 --> 01:05:01,359
know

1731
01:05:06,549 --> 01:05:03,760
that our listeners will want to hear

1732
01:05:08,950 --> 01:05:06,559
from you again mr david biedny

1733
01:05:12,789 --> 01:05:08,960
and um thank you

1734
01:05:14,710 --> 01:05:12,799
kate valentine and i'm ferocia and uh

1735
01:05:16,549 --> 01:05:14,720
really all i can say again is thanks a

1736
01:05:18,630 --> 01:05:16,559
lot david it's been a pleasure speaking

1737
01:05:36,069 --> 01:05:18,640
to you you're both very welcome okay

1738
01:05:41,589 --> 01:05:38,630
welcome to shattered reality

1739
01:05:43,190 --> 01:05:41,599
with your hosts kate valentine and

1740
01:05:46,230 --> 01:05:43,200
ferocia

1741
01:05:48,710 --> 01:05:46,240
prepare to have your paradigms shifted

1742
01:05:50,390 --> 01:05:48,720
into truth questioned